You're kidding... Dude! holy that's a lot of hops! Crap, now I wish I keg hopped..For dry hopping it was like
DH1: 100g (4oz)
DH2: 125g (5oz)
Keg: 100g (4oz)
You're kidding... Dude! holy that's a lot of hops! Crap, now I wish I keg hopped..For dry hopping it was like
DH1: 100g (4oz)
DH2: 125g (5oz)
Keg: 100g (4oz)
Did you still add the cdc1? How do the bubbles compare to when you have done natural carbing?
You're kidding... Dude! holy that's a lot of hops! Crap, now I wish I keg hopped..
I went to treehouse for the first time in ten months, since I really started chasing how to replicate their beers. I have to say, either I have had a huge palate shift/development since I've started making and drinking these hoppy creations en masse or somehow the treehouse quality has gone down since expanding to their new brewery. I'm inclined to believe the former. I've long lauded treehouse as the premier hazeboys and have repeatedly said Julius is the best IPA in the world but things done changed. That 'magic' character that I found across most of treehouse offerings weren't present in the aroma when I cracked a fresh Lights On, the flavor not as hop saturated, and the mouthfeel not as soft and pillowly as I remembered. I found the same general feeling in a can of Sap.
I'm not surprised by this as they have to figure out all that new equipment and slowly work up to full capacity. Who knows, maybe the water is even different there. So I'm not surprised the beer wasn't the same. I noticed that as well this September when I was there. The Julius wasn't the same, however, the Green was very good.Quality has gone down since switching facilities. I was unimpressed
Have you noticed any change in the beers hop flavor and aroma after letting it natural carb (warm) for a week with the beers that you didnt keg hop? I didn't keg hop this batch. Hope my hoppiness doesn't diminish sitting warm for a week... I kinda wish I forced carbed this one.
I used the same oz/gal as you in the batch I just packaged, 16 oz total for a 5 gal batch.Nice! I used 8oz total for this beer. How much have you been using for 2.5 gal?
I did not add the CBC-1. I don't know if I notice a difference in bubbles, because overall the beer is just softer — note that isn't better because I forced carbed, but because I changed my water additions (subbed half the CaCl with NaCl but with the same overall Sulfate:chloride ratio as previous attempts). I wouldn't be surprised to find it softer still by naturally carbing, but while I experiment with KCl for a few I'll just force carb so I can compare to this one.
I'm not surprised by this as they have to figure out all that new equipment and slowly work up to full capacity. Who knows, maybe the water is even different there. So I'm not surprised the beer wasn't the same. I noticed that as well this September when I was there. The Julius wasn't the same, however, the Green was very good.
I didn't want to expose the WB-06 to low temps during conditioning.
Quality has gone down since switching facilities. I was unimpressed
What is the theory behind this? What effect does the low temps possibly have on this strain?
I have noticed this with the last batches of Julius and Doppleganger. Green and Haze still taste great IMO.Quality has gone down since switching facilities. I was unimpressed
I didn't have Green. Maybe I should have. Perhaps there is a bad hop batch shared between Julius and others. Sap wasn't very good either, and unless Chinook is a significant component of Julius, that may not be it.I have noticed this with the last batches of Julius and Doppleganger. Green and Haze still taste great IMO.
Nice! What was your batch size and how many grams of each yeast did you use?Tried brewing a really simple new england pale ale using a very basic malt profile and the blend of three dry yeasts. Here are the bullet points
I did not get much haze from the WB-06 and am thinking about pitching that upfront the next time I brew this style.
- Only used 2-row, Munich, and some maltodextrin (try to beef up body)
- Used Magnum to bitter
- Did a 30 min hop stand with 1oz citra, 1oz amarillo, and 1oz centennial
- Pitched S-04 upfront at about 68/70F
- Pitched the WB-06 and T-58 with 1 oz of dry hops (amarillo) on day 2 and temp stayed constant
- Fermented for about 2.5 weeks
- Added a 2 oz "west coast" style dry hop (city and amarillo) to try to drive the aroma up
- Continued to bubble and would have continued but I cold crashed
Also the fact that it was actively fermenting for close to three weeks makes me think that the CBC is also used to halt fermentation of the three yeasts they use.
Has a great aroma, good body for what was designed to be a 5.5% beer. The flavor though seems to be lacking any kind of nuance and some of the fruit notes that come along with the Tree House beers I have. Used Magnum to bitter and that came through nicely. There is a balancing bitterness to the maltodextrin/unferemented sugars that are still in the beer because I cold crashed while still bubbling. Ultimately its another attempt I will learn from. This style is such an enigma.
Tried to upload a picture...hope it works!
Nice! What was your batch size and how many grams of each yeast did you use?
...it was actively fermenting for close to three weeks...
...
The flavor though seems to be lacking any kind of nuance and some of the fruit notes that come along with the Tree House beers I have.
What if you did 5, but instead of adding the hops/primer to the fermenter before work you added them to a sanitized/purged keg and then purged it again? Then get home from work, add any additional conditioning yeast that you might want to the fermenter and then fill the keg from it. Purge the headspace and leave at room temp to condition. This way none of the primer would ferment before you transfer, and you might get more O2 scavenging with more fermentables left post transfer.Slightly off topic, but on topic at this point I suppose.I am kegging 10g tomorrow.
Anyone have any input on a low oxygen uptake/intake for keg hopping?
I'm divided on a lot of things here.
I am putting one oz cryo in each keg.(citra and Mosaic, respectively)
I could keg condition with sugar, and while I think it would be best as far as o2 is concerned, I'm already at 12 days on this beer and don't want to wait until day 20 to drink.
I usually purge with sanitizer, headspace, etc, and transfer by pushing the beer from the Speidel with co2.
I see a few ways to go here, without keg conditioning.
1) purge as usual, then open keg lid prior to filling, add hop bag slowly while feeding a few psi into the liquid tube, seal, fill, purge headspace
2)don't purge, drop the hops in, do the old school 7x at 3psi, fill, purge headspace.
3)add some priming sugar to the fermentor in the morning before work to get more co2 in solution, then do #1 after work(I usually take care of #2 in the morning before work). Caveat here is it would fully ferment over 10 hours. I figure most would.
5) because option number 4 never works, ask any engineer. Suspend cryo hops in a priming solution (boiled, cooled). Add to a Gatorade or similar wide mouth bottle and add it to fermentor in the morning. Transfer to kegs after work using usual purge methods and leave at 75 in the fermentation chamber for a few days.
Any of these options look better than others? I think the last one is most o2 proof, even more so than keg conditioning with the hops in the kegs, but I will loose the awesomeness that is keg hopped beer.
I over think stuff.
Cheers, and thanks for any feedback.
Thanks for the feedback. Are you suggesting adding the Hop slurry directly to the keg? Or doing the priming and bagging the cryo?What if you did 5, but instead of adding the hops/primer to the fermenter before work you added them to a sanitized/purged keg and then purged it again? Then get home from work, add any additional conditioning yeast that you might want to the fermenter and then fill the keg from it. Purge the headspace and leave at room temp to condition. This way none of the primer would ferment before you transfer, and you might get more O2 scavenging with more fermentables left post transfer.
I might be concerned about leaving the cryo hops in a high pH liquid for that long, even at low temp. Although I guess cryo hops don't have all that plant matter so maybe that's not a valid concern (maybe not even a valid concern for regular old hop pellets). Anyway, if you were concerned maybe just use DME instead of sugar in the primer, that'll drop the pH.
Just my two cents.
Thanks for the feedback. Are you suggesting adding the Hop slurry directly to the keg? Or doing the priming and bagging the cryo?
This beer was my first with cryo(only used for both dryhops). I'm not sure if they are fine enough to clog a poppet or not. I'm not concerned about particulate in my beer when it comes to this style though.
I'm leaning towards only priming one of the kegs.l at this point as a bit of an experiment to see which one holds up better over time.
Took a little sample pour to see how the beer is naturally carbing and tasting. (day 5 in keg) Carb and color is good, however, its hard to tell at this point without the beer cold conditioning. I get the slightest hint of hefe or Belgian but its barely noticeable. Some of that juiciness and hop has faded slightly. Im putting it in the cold asap. Im not sure if carbing this way is ideal for these style beers. Next time I will either force carb or transfer to the keg with a few points left to go to let it carb up naturally without adding sugar (maybe day 4 or 5). Still going to add CBC with last dry hop addition to halt other yeast and help ferment the remaining sugar under pressure. Will report back in a week.
I kegged the beer after one week in the primary. It was day five in the keg when I tried it. I used priming sugar and CBC to carb. It’s now in the fridge. It’s Also not as hoppy as the FG sample.I feel like the phenols tend to fade quite a bit over time with this yeast blend. Might be gone after a few more days of conditioning. At least that was my experience with my last attempt that was up in the 7s% WB-06. That one never had its phenols fade completely, but it started with a lot and it came down a lot as well.
How many days in did you keg this one again? Did you add primer or use the last few points to carb up?
Nice! Have you brewed with these yeasts before? Did you try it on a small scale before brewing 15bbl? No offense or anything, but that’s kinda ballsy if it was your first shot lolI just brewed 13 bbls of 88-10-2 yeast blend after reading through this whole thread. It sounded like a good starting point. I'm fermenting at 65 to be on the safe side of my fermenters.
75.9% Premium Pils
13.8% Golden Promise
6.9% Pale Wheat
3.4% Crystal Light
2lbs Citra Mash Hop
150gma El Dorado Co2 extract 10 min
7lbs Eldorado -5 min
7lbs Citra -5 min
7lbs Denali -5 min
4 litres per min O2
K.O. 64
Ferment 65
15 Plato post boil
Dry Hop after 2 days 5lbs each
2nd Dry Hop 6th day 5lbs each and 11lbs of Citra cryo.
Awesome! How much total yeast did you pitch? Did you pitch dry or rehydrate?I just brewed 13 bbls of 88-10-2 yeast blend after reading through this whole thread. It sounded like a good starting point. I'm fermenting at 65 to be on the safe side of my fermenters.
75.9% Premium Pils
13.8% Golden Promise
6.9% Pale Wheat
3.4% Crystal Light
2lbs Citra Mash Hop
150gma El Dorado Co2 extract 10 min
7lbs Eldorado -5 min
7lbs Citra -5 min
7lbs Denali -5 min
4 litres per min O2
K.O. 64
Ferment 65
15 Plato post boil
Dry Hop after 2 days 5lbs each
2nd Dry Hop 6th day 5lbs each and 11lbs of Citra cryo.
After going through some of the old threads and after reading this, it doesn't make sense naturally carbing the beer at room temp for a week post primary fermentation even though we add CBC. As said before, they might be spunding at the tail end of fermentation and then cold conditioning the beer so the other yeast do not continue to ferment and change the flavor of the beer. What are your thoughts on this in regards to carbonation and further fermentation of the supporting yeast?The only issue with everyone thinking that CBC-1 is killing everything is that I’m sure there are plenty of people whom have harvested yeast from a TH beer and brewed a beer of their own with it and said beer definitely had flavor impact from T-58 and or WB-06 which meant they were active during fermentation therefore not killed by any CBC-1. I know I speak from experience.
I just brewed 13 bbls of 88-10-2 yeast blend after reading through this whole thread. It sounded like a good starting point. I'm fermenting at 65 to be on the safe side of my fermenters.
75.9% Premium Pils
13.8% Golden Promise
6.9% Pale Wheat
3.4% Crystal Light
2lbs Citra Mash Hop
150gma El Dorado Co2 extract 10 min
7lbs Eldorado -5 min
7lbs Citra -5 min
7lbs Denali -5 min
4 litres per min O2
K.O. 64
Ferment 65
15 Plato post boil
Dry Hop after 2 days 5lbs each
2nd Dry Hop 6th day 5lbs each and 11lbs of Citra cryo.
After going through some of the old threads and after reading this, it doesn't make sense naturally carbing the beer at room temp for a week post primary fermentation even though we add CBC. As said before, they might be spunding at the tail end of fermentation and then cold conditioning the beer so the other yeast do not continue to ferment and change the flavor of the beer. What are your thoughts on this in regards to carbonation and further fermentation of the supporting yeast?
I would imagine that cold crashing to halt fermentation isn't really a viable option for a commercial brewery. On the homebrew scale maybe, because you are more likely to be able to guarantee what temp your beer is exposed to after it's done. But if I were a pro brewer I wouldn't want to risk that my canned beers could turn into gushers with reactivated yeast if someone received a case in, say, Florida. You could say that the CBC-1 could halt the more attenuative yeast, but as @couchsending and others have experienced, the CBC-1 isn't a viable way to do that completely.After going through some of the old threads and after reading this, it doesn't make sense naturally carbing the beer at room temp for a week post primary fermentation even though we add CBC. As said before, they might be spunding at the tail end of fermentation and then cold conditioning the beer so the other yeast do not continue to ferment and change the flavor of the beer. What are your thoughts on this in regards to carbonation and further fermentation of the supporting yeast?
After going through some of the old threads and after reading this, it doesn't make sense naturally carbing the beer at room temp for a week post primary fermentation even though we add CBC. As said before, they might be spunding at the tail end of fermentation and then cold conditioning the beer so the other yeast do not continue to ferment and change the flavor of the beer. What are your thoughts on this in regards to carbonation and further fermentation of the supporting yeast?
Agreed.I don't know how you get to their 18-21 day grain to glass without the beer conditioning for a week to two weeks, be it natural or forced.
I'm just thinking out loud. But maybe 7 days primary fermentation with spunding at the end and two weeks cold conditioning? Or like you guys are saying, 7 days primary, then natural carb with more dry hops for around a week, and then cold condition another week. Just ideas. Really wish I kegged hopped now while natural carbing because the sample pour I took last night (two days in fridge) is not that hoppy :-(I don't know how you get to their 18-21 day grain to glass without the beer conditioning for a week to two weeks, be it natural or forced.
Yeah, I'm having a similar experience with the batch i just bottle conditioned. That awesome hop character I had in my first attempt (which was also pretty phenolic) is just not there. I naturally carbed that first one in the keg with CBC-1 and keg hopped. I also dry hopped that one loose in the fermenter and cold crashed to drop the hops, whereas this last one was in nylon bags. So I guess there's a couple of variables at play for me here unfortunately. Next time I'm going to go back to dry hopping loose and keg hopping as well.I'm just thinking out loud. But maybe 7 days primary fermentation with spunding at the end and two weeks cold conditioning? Or like you guys are saying, 7 days primary, then natural carb with more dry hops for around a week, and then cold condition another week. Just ideas. Really wish I kegged hopped now while natural carbing because the sample pour I took last night (two days in fridge) is not that hoppy :-(
I would imagine that cold crashing to halt fermentation isn't really a viable option for a commercial brewery. On the homebrew scale maybe, because you are more likely to be able to guarantee what temp your beer is exposed to after it's done. But if I were a pro brewer I wouldn't want to risk that my canned beers could turn into gushers with reactivated yeast if someone received a case in, say, Florida. You could say that the CBC-1 could halt the more attenuative yeast, but as @couchsending and others have experienced, the CBC-1 isn't a viable way to do that completely.
Just speculation of course. But my money is on primary ferment with the trio, ferment out, naturally carb with CBC-1 but with additional dry hops and then canning. I think on the homebrew scale this would be analogous to keg conditioning with CBC-1 with a keg hop charge and then transferring to a serving keg, which I think is what I'm going to try on my next attempt.
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