beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
My exact experience with a king julius, good beer but 0 TH character. It was not super fresh though
Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?
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brewpharm Hill
Well-Known Member
I was there last week. I was shocked by how much house character it has. I expected it to be something more noticeable, but honestly, it tastes similar. I've only had one can so far so we'll see what I taste the second time around.
As for all the potassium talk ... In the book "Water" by John Palmer and Colin Kaminski, they mention that all barley wort @ 10 degrees plato contains ~400ppm of potassium. So if TH isn't using a lot of wheat or oats in their core line up of beers it would explain the higher potassium levels. Plus, some yeast nutrients contain potassium as well (Yeastex for example). Would be worth experimenting with potassium though! Especially in high adjunct IPAs.
Wouldn't be surprised if they increase pH before fermentation with their "secret sauce" to avoid that twang from S04. I feel like the twang decreases after the first generation too, FWIW.
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beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Interesting, if they then use a new yeast what would be the point if its still getting overshadowed by their "house yeast character".
It would mean they are blending this new yeast in, perhaps one of those thiol yeasts for experimenting, and still their house yeast esters trampled over it.
Thats a pretty damn expressive house yeast then.
brewpharm Hill
Well-Known Member
I'll report back when I crack another can. If we assume that the most recent Curiosity is LAIII based on their latest youtube vids, maybe they wanted to try it with their house blend? For example, LAIII with a sprinkle of T58 and WB06. Would make sense for the Curiosity series.
They're doing a "Data Set" series where they experiment with different yeasts on their own. The first one was released last week and is their control which is their house yeast.
And everyone in this thread knows damn well that the secret sauce strains in their blend can be quite dominant LOL
All speculation here btw
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brewpharm Hill
Well-Known Member
Agreed. No way that they use it in Julius or will (unless the really like the results of the curiosity beers etc.). And it is just speculation that they are using it in the latest curiosity based on the YouTube video.
Quantity over quality? Would make sense as it happens to most
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/product-details/lalbrew-cbc-1/
CBC-1 is a "killer yeast" strain and will literally wipe out living competitors, like wb06 and t58...
Cheers!
CBC-1 is a "killer yeast" strain and will literally wipe out living competitors, like wb06 and t58...
Cheers!
And how is this yeast related with TH?
[shrug] I was just answering your question. Maybe go back and re-read the thread?
Cheers!
brewpharm Hill
Well-Known Member
No one is really sure of its application in TH yeast. CBC1 only consumes simple sugars, like glucose and dextrose, which makes it a good candidate for conditioning/natural carbonations.
WB06 is STA1 positive, so it is a diastaticus strain which makes it a high attenuator. Also, folks that have experience with WB06 in wheat beers say that the flavor of the yeast grows stronger with time. Maybe CBC1's kills properties are what keep that from happening during conditioning in the brite tank and after packaging. Again, all speculation. No one really knows.
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
That looks very orange for an ultra pale malt base
yea, that’s what I was getting at. I was always a doubter (I thought it was incidental), but here we are
echoALEia
Well-Known Member
Hope everyone is well. Not sure if anyone has brewed the recently released Treehouse recipe, but below is a side by side of the recipe on the left, and Very Hazy on the right.
I have to say, I really love this recipe - the thing that stands out most to me is the malt bill. After I dry hopped this and let it sit for 48 hours, the malt profile reminded me of the first time I had Haze. Unfortunately I didn’t have a can of Haze on me to compre, so I had to use my only can of Very Hazy (it was an old one from 12/6/22). Instead of using Rahr standard 2row in mine, I used their Pale ale malt (it’s technically 2row - just a little higher srm) making my final SRM around 5.5. The malt profiles are super close, although I would say Very Hazy tasted a LITTLE more roasted. Mine was more hoppy but that’s to be expected.
I think this recipe is great and the hop combination is lovely - I’d suggest everyone try it. I think 10% flaked oats and 5% Carafoam is a good start as well - the body and mouthfeel are spot on. Cheers!
I have to say, I really love this recipe - the thing that stands out most to me is the malt bill. After I dry hopped this and let it sit for 48 hours, the malt profile reminded me of the first time I had Haze. Unfortunately I didn’t have a can of Haze on me to compre, so I had to use my only can of Very Hazy (it was an old one from 12/6/22). Instead of using Rahr standard 2row in mine, I used their Pale ale malt (it’s technically 2row - just a little higher srm) making my final SRM around 5.5. The malt profiles are super close, although I would say Very Hazy tasted a LITTLE more roasted. Mine was more hoppy but that’s to be expected.
I think this recipe is great and the hop combination is lovely - I’d suggest everyone try it. I think 10% flaked oats and 5% Carafoam is a good start as well - the body and mouthfeel are spot on. Cheers!
Attachments
recently released recipe?
A new version of their 2016 beer?
Cheers!
Cheers!
Likely the recipe from their YouTube videos that was discussed a few pages back.
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
So many english yeasts out there, marmalade makes me think of the conan family though
If I was nod and winking at LAIII, that's basically what I would write. Conan almost always comes with a reference to peach rings and/or Vermont
echoALEia
Well-Known Member
This…
Mousetrapbrewery
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How was the bitterness on the recipe? Seemed like a lot of hops during bittering phases instead of doing a whirlpool. How long was the wort on the hops after the flame out addition?
echoALEia
Well-Known Member
Well balanced, definitely not over bitter in my opinion. I whirlpooled for 20 minutes.
I figured this video had to be included in this thread! I am not sure what Nate/Treehouse has actually said about their house yeast, but here Nate does call it a "blend."
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
So that's conclusive - at least, assuming they're using the Omega thiolised yeasts, at 7:06 he says that Dataset #4 uses "a thiolised yeast strain...based on the base yeast strain that's utilised in Dataset #5". And Dataset#5 uses "a classic European yeast strain that was sold to us as a phenomenal maker of hazy IPA". (9:06)
Omega has only done thiolised versions of their Chico (West Coast Ale I), 1318 (British V) and Mexican Lager. So the working hypothesis would be that #5 is British V and #4 is a thiolised British V, either the original IRC7 Cosmic Punch or the more powerful patB Helio Gazer.
He's a bit vague about the parent strain of #2, but the way he says that it's drier makes me wonder if that's a thiolised Chico, which from Omega would mean the patB Star Party.
One wonders if they are all Omega yeasts, in which case #3 would be one of their eight British ale strains - if they're used to using S-04 then I or II are their Whitbread strains.
Omega has only done thiolised versions of their Chico (West Coast Ale I), 1318 (British V) and Mexican Lager. So the working hypothesis would be that #5 is British V and #4 is a thiolised British V, either the original IRC7 Cosmic Punch or the more powerful patB Helio Gazer.
He's a bit vague about the parent strain of #2, but the way he says that it's drier makes me wonder if that's a thiolised Chico, which from Omega would mean the patB Star Party.
One wonders if they are all Omega yeasts, in which case #3 would be one of their eight British ale strains - if they're used to using S-04 then I or II are their Whitbread strains.
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
sounds like 3 and 5 are london ale based, but 3 has a bit more of that vanilla thing going on? Possible the Verdant / London Fog or that vanilla forward one sapwood cellars is using vs classic 1318?.
couchsending
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I had a buddy send me three of their newer beers cause I wanted to see what the expression of these specific hops had in a Treehosue beer. It is insane how much their yeast blend absolutely tramples hop character. One was using the new hop, Pink, from Jackson Hop Farms. The other was showcasing 1019 and the the other was a Nelson focused beer.
These are are very expressive hops that are rather unique. One should be able to pick them out upon cracking the can. I literally could barely tell these beers apart. 1019 is maybe one of the most powerful, unique, expressive hops to date and again maybe every 2nd or 3rd sip could I find it. All their beers taste and smell so much alike it’s crazy. I’ve also had a decent amount of what I believe is acetaldehyde in quite a few of their beers lately.
There are certainly better yeasts available to make great hazy hoppy beers these days.
These are are very expressive hops that are rather unique. One should be able to pick them out upon cracking the can. I literally could barely tell these beers apart. 1019 is maybe one of the most powerful, unique, expressive hops to date and again maybe every 2nd or 3rd sip could I find it. All their beers taste and smell so much alike it’s crazy. I’ve also had a decent amount of what I believe is acetaldehyde in quite a few of their beers lately.
There are certainly better yeasts available to make great hazy hoppy beers these days.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
That would be compatible with WB-06 being in there, which single-handedly trashes hop character IME - perhaps there's been a change in process which means WB-06 becomes more rampant (pitching together rather than separate fermentations?? or something similar??)
Man, this has always been my problem with them. Years ago, after the initial wow over the flavors I quickly realized no matter what hops they used they were completely masked by that house yeast flavor. Sometimes I wondered if they just slap a different label on some of their beers and call it a day.
I wish they would just consolidate what they offer. Sometimes it's just too much. They should stick to some core stuff with their house yeast, but offer some others that can showcase hops. I get they probably don't want to rock the boat because the train is still chugging, but someday I feel you'll see them branch out a bit once the luster wears off, and people have had enough of that flavor. They do surprisingly make some good Euro Lagers. It flies under the radar, of course cause hops trump for now.
In the end my tastes have been moving over to more subtle and nuanced flavors. Cleaner profiles, tasting what an ingredient or two does for a beer. I've tired of getting walloped over the head with fruit salad beer.
PilotAlex17
Member
I get everyone has preferences but a lot of us are looking to achieve fruit salad beer. I recently went and love everything I got. Juice Machine, Very Green, King Julius… each very different from each other.
Has anyone controlled WB-06 as to not produce the clove?
Does anyone have links to Nate’s online forum posts that have “nuggets of wisdom” as referenced by Fidens Brewing Co in their Craft Beer and Brewing article?
Has anyone controlled WB-06 as to not produce the clove?
Does anyone have links to Nate’s online forum posts that have “nuggets of wisdom” as referenced by Fidens Brewing Co in their Craft Beer and Brewing article?
Yup, I'm not down on anybody enjoying what they make. I do too. Couch just struck a cord in me that nailed exactly how I've felt for a while.
I haven't been in a while to TH, but I'm do for a stop on the way home from my commute. I enjoy many of the beers they make, my taste buds have just shifted over the years to other things.
I would be curious to see if someone could blend after fermentation to at least be able to dial in some ratios. Would be cool if someone had 4 taps, and were able to dedicate each one to specific strains. I could easily see someone being able to discreetly dial in exact amounts till they think they came close enough. Of course, that's assuming what they do.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
That happened at a fairly early stage in this thread, something like 87:8:5 S-04:T-58:WB-06 IIRC
Yes. Early on in this thread I did a wb only beer with a lot of hops and the clove was still present no matter what we did. Same with the yeast blends including wb. I still don’t think they are using wb unless they are doing something to get rid of that clove. I did so4 with t58 with not bad results.
EwoutM
New Member
Tree House just released a new data set video
I have them all in my fridge ready for tasting.
I have them all in my fridge ready for tasting.
