Is this a ridiculous hop schedule?

[kjm13]

OK - I'm just throwing this out there. Making AG batch in a few weeks, making recipe from scratch. Pale base, 8% wheat, est OG 1.069. Looking for a really complex hop profile, with lots of citrus / mango type flavors, and not super bitter. So this is what I'm thinking just off the top of my head. Is this just way too much? Am I going to end up with really muddled flavors?
Any and all feedback appreciated.
thanks!


0.50 oz Nugget - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Apollo - Boil 10.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Citra - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Citra - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold - Dry Hop 5 Days
1.00 oz Citra - Dry Hop 5 Days
1.00 oz Simcoe - Dry Hop 5 Days

 

[atom]

not at all...looks good. i'd recommend letting those flameout hops steep for at least 30 min.

 

[kjm13]

not at all...looks good. i'd recommend letting those flameout hops steep for at least 30 min.

Great! I usually let the wort cool to about 175F° before I take it outside to the wort chiller. That usually takes about 20/30 min.
Thanks!

 

[kjm13]

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[kjm13]

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[daksin]

You've got double or triple IPA amounts of hops in the kettle, and then a biggish IPA or double IPA dry hop, with single IPA gravity points. It'll be a really expensive IPA, that's for sure- with all those hops I'd want some more gravity, personally. It should still taste great, though!

 

[Mexibilly]

For my taste I'd double the 60 minute addition and spread the late boil hops out from 20 minutes to 0 with a big 20 - 30 minute steep addition.

 

[kjm13]

I'm going for that northeast hop bomb style, that's not too bitter bit has a ton of aroma and complex flavors. It's gonna be a bit of pricey experiment for sure, but my plan is to brew this base recipe every 3 to 4 weeks and tweak it till I get it just like I want... Unless it's terrible the first time out, then I'll start over!

 

[TAK]

You've got double or triple IPA amounts of hops in the kettle, and then a biggish IPA or double IPA dry hop, with single IPA gravity points. It'll be a really expensive IPA, that's for sure- with all those hops I'd want some more gravity, personally. It should still taste great, though!

For me, the OPs recipe is close in line with my SOP for a standard IPA.
8.5 oz on the hot side, most at the end, that sounds great for a 1.070+/- gravity IPA. Actually, I'd probably throw 2-3 more oz. at it, in the whirlpool/hopstand.

 

[ledbed6b]

I do a session IPA that has 24 oz of hops in 13 gallons, what you are doing looks damn good to me. I wouldn't hesitate to add even more at flameout if you want. Also I don't think 30 minutes is the magic number for getting whirlpool hop goodness, I'd say at least 15 minutes above 160 deg is all that's needed

 

[Transamguy77]

I would recommend to first wort hop it with just a bit more hops, I like how FWH has a nice "mellow" bitter not a sharp bite.

The rest of it looks good.

 

[kjm13]

For me, the OPs recipe is close in line with my SOP for a standard IPA.
8.5 oz on the hot side, most at the end, that sounds great for a 1.070+/- gravity IPA. Actually, I'd probably throw 2-3 more oz. at it, in the whirlpool/hopstand.

I was thinking of adding in an oz of simcoe at the flameout stage, just for completeness sake. Grain bill on this is 10lbs 2row, 1lbs wheat malt, 4oz acid malt, 12oz crystal 40 8oz carapils. That's the max for my mash tun, so have to add 8oz of LME to hit my gravity goal of 1.069. I need to upgrade... Thanks for the feedback!

 

[TheJosephizer]

Going to brew a similar beer myself. Got heady topper as a gift and have fallen in love at first smell and taste.
I opted for hop extract for bittering. Supposed to be really smooth and not overly bitter. My last IPA had Calypso for bittering and that was excellent as well.
Along with using extract, this will also be the first beer without any hop additions during the boil. 4ozs flameout. 4oz at 175(30 mins). 3oz dry hop after 1 week. 3oz at two weeks. Bottle after the third.

 

[TheJosephizer]

I was thinking of adding in an oz of simcoe at the flameout stage, just for completeness sake. Grain bill on this is 10lbs 2row, 1lbs wheat malt, 4oz acid malt, 12oz crystal 40 8oz carapils. That's the max for my mash tun, so have to add 8oz of LME to hit my gravity goal of 1.069. I need to upgrade... Thanks for the feedback!

Depending on your water profile, the 4oz acid malt might not be enough to get your mash ph down to 5.2-5.4. I just invested in a ph meter and phosphoric acid specifically for light beers.

 

[Kharnynb]

just a question, but is this 5 or 10 gallons? it looks about right for a standard ipa 10 gallon batch, bit over the top for 5 for me personally.

 

[kjm13]

I would recommend to first wort hop it with just a bit more hops, I like how FWH has a nice "mellow" bitter not a sharp bite.

The rest of it looks good.

I haven't done a wort hop before, What does that look like?

 

[kjm13]

just a question, but is this 5 or 10 gallons? it looks about right for a standard ipa 10 gallon batch, bit over the top for 5 for me personally.

5 gal... guess I'm shooting for over the top.

 

[kjm13]

Depending on your water profile, the 4oz acid malt might not be enough to get your mash ph down to 5.2-5.4. I just invested in a ph meter and phosphoric acid specifically for light beers.

pH meter is on the list, but I just bought a freezer and a temp controller so I can control my fermentation temps perfectly, so it's going to be a bit. I was looking at something that said 2% acid malt should do it for most beers, but I know this one is pretty light. my H20 profile is:
Ca+ 9.9, Mg 2.3, Na 57, S04 21.0, Cl 83.0, HC03 41.5.
What do you think?
thanks!

 

[m00ps]

5 gal... guess I'm shooting for over the top.

Just be careful, its a slippery slope. But one well worth doing down.

also agree with steeping the flameout hops...and adding more

 

[m00ps]

also, using a number of different hops doesnt necessarily make for a more "complex" hop character. Mosaic especially is very complex on its own IME. That being said, all those hops will work well together. But oyu definitely dont need 4 types to create complexity.

I might stress one or two of the hops just for boil and flameout additions and some of the other just for flameout. To me, citra is great for dry hopping but can get catty if using too much in the boil. Amarillo is great smelling and great tasting in small amounts, but can impart a metallic flavor IME if used generously in the boil

Whats the rest of the recipe look like?

 

[TheJosephizer]

pH meter is on the list, but I just bought a freezer and a temp controller so I can control my fermentation temps perfectly, so it's going to be a bit. I was looking at something that said 2% acid malt should do it for most beers, but I know this one is pretty light. my H20 profile is:
Ca+ 9.9, Mg 2.3, Na 57, S04 21.0, Cl 83.0, HC03 41.5.
What do you think?
thanks!

Looks good to me. Where I live my tap water is on the alkaline side, and the amount of acid malt I had to use started turning my beer a little on the sour side. So now I adjust with the phosphoric acid in the mash.
Freezer and temp controller is next on my list. But mainly so I can keg my beer again.
Fortunately have a room in the basement that stays right at 66-67° year 'round.

 

[eluterio]

might want to read up on the SO4 to Cl ratio. It seems your water profile is a leans to the Cl side. From what I have read (I haven't tried) a 1:1 ratio or a higher SO4 would benefit the hop character.

 

[darling]

Here's my 2 cents:

Is this overkill? Yes! You should totally do it!

Are the flavors going to be muddled? It looks that way. 6 different types of hops sounds like an amazing experiment, but there are too many variables going in the pot to really know what is contributing most to the final product. What I mean is that if you get the beer you're looking for, how do you know the Simcoe is not lost, or the Citra is wasted?

I agree with the other posters that FWH will get you a lot of mild IBUs without ending up overly bitter. I usually shoot for 60% of my IBUs from FWH, then throw my other hot side hops in the whirlpool, leaving ~1oz/gallon for the dry hop. Results are very much what you've described, and using 2-4 hop varities (i.e.: one neutral for bittering, and one or two other complementary hops for flavor/aroma) I know exactly which hops I'm getting the bang for my buck.

 

[kjm13]

also, using a number of different hops doesnt necessarily make for a more "complex" hop character. Mosaic especially is very complex on its own IME. That being said, all those hops will work well together. But oyu definitely dont need 4 types to create complexity.
/
I might stress one or two of the hops just for boil and flameout additions and some of the other just for flameout. To me, citra is great for dry hopping but can get catty if using too much in the boil. Amarillo is great smelling and great tasting in small amounts, but can impart a metallic flavor IME if used generously in the boil

Whats the rest of the recipe look like?

The rest of the recipe is 10lbs 2row, 1lbs wheat malt, 4oz acid malt, 12oz crystal 40 8oz carapils. That's the max for my mash tun, so have to add 8oz of LME to hit my gravity goal of 1.069. Plus a wirlfloc tab, campden tab. Still working on the mineral adjustments, and using GY054 Vermont ale for the yeast (It's >200 billion cells, do I need a starter? haven't used before...)
What do you think?
thanks!

 

[kjm13]

Think I'm a little confused about something. What is the difference of the flame out hop addition and the steeping hop addition? I thought you added the hops at flame out, let them "steep" until the wort hits about 164/170, then start the chilling process. Am I missing a step?
thanks,

 

[eluterio]

The rest of the recipe is 10lbs 2row, 1lbs wheat malt, 4oz acid malt, 12oz crystal 40 8oz carapils. That's the max for my mash tun, so have to add 8oz of LME to hit my gravity goal of 1.069. Plus a wirlfloc tab, campden tab. Still working on the mineral adjustments, and using GY054 Vermont ale for the yeast (It's >200 billion cells, do I need a starter? haven't used before...)
What do you think?
thanks!

I would figure 200 is perfect for a 1050 beer might need to do a starter for a 1069 beer. I just finished up a Tripel og 1083 my target pitch rate was 471 billion cells. I had to do a 4 lt starter yeast was a little old. I use Yest pitch rate from Brewersfriends.com.

 

[eluterio]

Think I'm a little confused about something. What is the difference of the flame out hop addition and the steeping hop addition? I thought you added the hops at flame out, let them "steep" until the wort hits about 164/170, then start the chilling process. Am I missing a step?
thanks,

Not sure if there is a definition on this. Flame out + zero min

If you decide to chill and hold at 170 now your steeping, I think. You could introduce more hops at 170.

Theres also whirlpool additions. when your whirlpooling your wort and add hops almost seems to me like steeping. It all varies on who you ask. I wouldn't worry about it just put your hops when you want them.

 

[philosofool]

Think I'm a little confused about something. What is the difference of the flame out hop addition and the steeping hop addition? I thought you added the hops at flame out, let them "steep" until the wort hits about 164/170, then start the chilling process. Am I missing a step?
thanks,

"Steep", "whirlpool" and "hopstand" seem to be used pretty interchangably. The idea is all the same: any hops added after the boil fall into these categories. People do them differently: some knock out the flame and add the hops a minute or two later, letting it stand for 20-30 mimnutes; some cool the wort to 170 +/- 10 degrees and let it stand for 45 minutes; some cool the wort to about 145 and let the hops stand for 90 minutes. The idea is that hotter utilizes more Alpha Acids and may volatize some key oils, losing them, (myrcene, the oil most associated with American Hops is particularly heat sensitive), while cooler reduces that oil loss and reduces bitterness some. However, 90 minutes is a long time and it's not clear that there's any real benefit, or that the "losses" in a hotter shorter stand can't be compensated for with an extra ounce of hops.

My wort boils at 199 (7000 feet above sea level) and I have gotten great hop aroma and flavor from 3 ounces for 15 minutes right after the boil. Assuming that I get to brew tomorow, which is not a certainty because my son just came home sick, I will be doing an IPA with a 30 minute stand at 180. And like you, it's 6 ounces of whirlpool hops.

 

[kjm13]

might want to read up on the SO4 to Cl ratio. It seems your water profile is a leans to the Cl side. From what I have read (I haven't tried) a 1:1 ratio or a higher SO4 would benefit the hop character.

I still feel like I'm unclear on when / where to add the brewing salts. Should I add all the salts to the mash and sparge water, or do they go in the boil kettle? I've made some pretty good beers without adding any in the past, but want to try and make them better

 

[m00ps]

for the gigayeast packages, you should be good to go without a starter provbided the yeast isnt past its date. I might recommend doing one anyway though so you can harvest some of it from your starter to save for next time. Ive found that Conan gets higher attenuation with subsequent generations

 

[eluterio]

I still feel like I'm unclear on when / where to add the brewing salts. Should I add all the salts to the mash and sparge water, or do they go in the boil kettle? I've made some pretty good beers without adding any in the past, but want to try and make them better

The answer yes lol. You can add it to the mash, sparge, or boil. I haven't read anything that suggest one way better than the other. I use bru'n water do a google search on it. I figure you can add just a bit of gypsum to get to a 1:1 ratio and put it in the mash or boil.

 

[kjm13]

for the gigayeast packages, you should be good to go without a starter provbided the yeast isnt past its date. I might recommend doing one anyway though so you can harvest some of it from your starter to save for next time. Ive found that Conan gets higher attenuation with subsequent generations

Ok. I'll make one, but I won't have enough time to chill and decant as its only going to arrive about 40h before I need to pitch. Ok to add the whole 2L starter? Won't that effect the flavor? Also the warmest spot in my house is about 66F°, so I have no idea how I'm going to hold the starter temp in the 70's...

 

[Transamguy77]

I haven't done a wort hop before, What does that look like?

When you start your sparge you put your hops into your BK so they are in from the very beginning. Doing it this way seems to take away the bitter from your bittering addition and makes it smoother.

 

[iBrewR]

When you start your sparge you put your hops into your BK so they are in from the very beginning.

Which is it? Do I put them in from the beginning before I lauter or do I put them in when I sparge?

 

[eluterio]

Ok. I'll make one, but I won't have enough time to chill and decant as its only going to arrive about 40h before I need to pitch. Ok to add the whole 2L starter? Won't that effect the flavor? Also the warmest spot in my house is about 66F°, so I have no idea how I'm going to hold the starter temp in the 70's...

Don't worry about the temp when your making a starter. 66 will be fine I'm sure the temp will be 70 when it's going. I've added the hole thing and decanted never could tell and what your making it won't make a difference it's a hoppy beer.

 

[Schecter]

OK - I'm just throwing this out there. Making AG batch in a few weeks, making recipe from scratch. Pale base, 8% wheat, est OG 1.069. Looking for a really complex hop profile, with lots of citrus / mango type flavors, and not super bitter. So this is what I'm thinking just off the top of my head. Is this just way too much? Am I going to end up with really muddled flavors?
Any and all feedback appreciated.
thanks!


0.50 oz Nugget - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Apollo - Boil 10.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Citra - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic - Boil 5.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Citra - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Mosaic - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold - Dry Hop 5 Days
1.00 oz Citra - Dry Hop 5 Days
1.00 oz Simcoe - Dry Hop 5 Days

I believe in your future iterations you will up the pre-ferment hops a few ounces to get the punch you are looking for, but I tend to start with less and add rather than subtract.
I would recommend not doing 0 minute additions and dropping the temp to 160F before adding for a 30 minute steep. Myrcene will boil off at 212F.
Also, to be nitpicky, for big DIPAs I would split the dry hop over a total of 7-8 days. However, I'm lazy and do it all at one addition for 6 days.

Honestly, as is, looks great. I doubt you will be disappointed.

Cheers.

 

[kjm13]

I believe in your future iterations you will up the pre-ferment hops a few ounces to get the punch you are looking for, but I tend to start with less and add rather than subtract.

I would recommend not doing 0 minute additions and dropping the temp to 160F before adding for a 30 minute steep. Myrcene will boil off at 212F.

Also, to be nitpicky, for big DIPAs I would split the dry hop over a total of 7-8 days. However, I'm lazy and do it all at one addition for 6 days.



Honestly, as is, looks great. I doubt you will be disappointed.



Cheers.

Thanks for the feedback! I think am going to move all the "flame out" additions to the 30min steep method at ~170F°. Seems like that may be the way to go for the style I'm looking for.

 

[Transamguy77]

Which is it? Do I put them in from the beginning before I lauter or do I put them in when I sparge?

When you sparge, when you start to drain your mash tun into your brew kettle. I usually hang the hose so it runs down my hop bag. Since I make 10 gallons it usually takes about 45 mins before I start the burner so the hops are in contact the 45ish mins and the whole 60 min boil.

 

[kjm13]

When you start your sparge you put your hops into your BK so they are in from the very beginning. Doing it this way seems to take away the bitter from your bittering addition and makes it smoother.

So this would apply only to your 60 min (or full boil) hop additions I would assume?

 

[kjm13]

Depending on your water profile, the 4oz acid malt might not be enough to get your mash ph down to 5.2-5.4. I just invested in a ph meter and phosphoric acid specifically for light beers.

I actually just put this into the Bru'n water spread sheet (first time using this), and it said 4oz of acid malt was too much, and would give me a mash pH of 5.1... could I be entering something wrong, or should I just trust the software and step down the acid malt to 2oz? Lower pH is better for hoppy beers correct?
thanks!