Is that clean enough?

[Tamir]

Hi my friends, first beer, obsessed with doing everything as perfect as I can, but actually, my most feared stage is going not so good as I would expect even with all of my efforts.

I'm cleaning used bottles right now.
My procedure was this: I first placed all of them in the deepwasher on the highest temp for removing the labels, with soap, it cleared a lot of the inside as well. Then I soaked the bottles with hot water and soap, and shook it vigouresly and most of the mold has gone. Then I rinsed everything in hot water and soap again, took a bottle brush attached to a power drill and clean the hell out of it, and in a flashlight check it looked really shiny and clean.

Now that it has dried, I took the flashlight test and I still see like "spots" or "clouds", I'm not sure if it is dirt, mold, bottle discolour or I don't know what.

I took pictures so you can decide. I appears like these "clouds" at the bottom also appear in the outside of the bottle, and I don't think I can clean it any better than now.

Am I insane or super un-effective?

*This is only the cleaning stage, I am going to sanitize everything before the actual bottling*

See attachments
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154243&stc=1&d=1381940139

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154244&stc=1&d=1381940139

 

[ROLLTIDE]

You could always boil, use rubbing alcohol or campden tablets. I wouldnt suggest such extreme measures but with previous mold, it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Tamir]

I am gonna sanitize everything with a sanitizing solution, I am referring to the cleaning right now
Is what I see actually dirt or natural discolour of the bottles? Will it actually ruin the beer?

 

[Huff360]

Relax.

Clean the bottles, don't stress over it. If there aren't chunks in there, sanitize and bottle.

 

[Foosier]

I have seen this before myself. Sometimes it is the dried water spots other times it is moisture that does not fully get dried out of the bottle.

If you have gotten all of the dirt out of the bottles using accepted cleaning principles, then a sanitizing solution should be sufficient to make your bottles safe for bottling. There are lots of options to take your cleaning further though if you are worried.

One method is to leave your bottles a bit damp on the inside, cover the opening with foil and then heat them in the oven to essentially pastuerize everything in the bottle. I think the conventional wisdom is to use a temp around 400 degrees and then let the bottles cool overnight in the oven. This is a bit overkill in most cases but could be worthwhile given that you are starting from moldy bottles. There are threads which explain this process.

 

[flars]

In the first picture it looks like hardened gunk. This will harbor bacteria no matter how much sanitizing you do. These could be put in a deep pot standing upright, covered with an inch of water, one cup of white vinegar per galon, and boiled for fifteen minutes. Use foil or a rack to keep the bottles off the bottom of the pot.

Cool the pot with the bottles in it and use your electric drill and bottle brush one more time with the boiling solution. If the gunk does not come loose, toss the bottle in the recycle bin.

The second picture looks lkie discolored glass. Hard to tell. This will be your call.

It is tough using old bottles, but once they are clean they will stay clean. Good luck.

 

[Tamir]

It looks bad on the picture but it actually completely flat and looks like a spot, and it has the shape of the spot at the outside of the bottle. I have quite a few of these, this is why I'm not sure... I drilled the heck out of it so i HARDly believe it's actual gunk, but I trust you more right now

 

[processhead]

There are some bottle stains that are actually mineral deposits that don't respond to conventional soaps, detergents, or cleaners.

I would not obsess over it too much. You can oven-sterilize the bottles first time if it gives you some piece of mind.

Sometimes an acid soak, like with vinegar, will dissolve mineral deposits.

 

[Tamir]

Thanks a lot guys, for the fast and professional response.
So, in conclusion, would you think that if I oven dry bake all my bottles (in this condition) for about 60 minute or more at close to 400 degrees, and then in the bottling day sanitize them with solution, it will be about 99% percent safe to bottle?

I put all this effort right now because these are first-time cleaned bottles, and I plan to use them a lot in the future.

 

[Homercidal]

Frankly, when I choose bottles for cleaning I toss out anything that has a hard stain, like mold, gunk etc. It's not worth my time to try and salvage them.

That said, you could sterilize the bottles in the oven and they would at least be safe for putting beer in, even if there is a spot on the bottom left over after the pour.

My procedure for cleaning bottles is to soak in PBW/Oxy for a few hours in HOT water and then remove labels and rinse well. I follow that up with an acid rinse to remove the deposits from my highly alkaline water. Then a rinse and store until I need to use them. At that time it's a starsan spritz and a quick drip and then fill.

That is enough work for me and then some. That is why I pass over anything that needs 'scrubbing' or I think might take a little muscle to clean. There are just way too many suitable bottles to choose from for me to want to mess with that.

 

[ChaosStout]

Thanks a lot guys, for the fast and professional response.
So, in conclusion, would you think that if I oven dry bake all my bottles (in this condition) for about 60 minute or more at close to 400 degrees, and then in the bottling day sanitize them with solution, it will be about 99% percent safe to bottle?

I put all this effort right now because these are first-time cleaned bottles, and I plan to use them a lot in the future.

Really man your going overboard. Heating the bottles to 400F could weaken the glass when it cools back down. The only thing you need to do to clean old bottles is Oxyclean and hot water. Let them sit overnight submerged in it and the next day the labels will come right off and any mold in the bottles will rinse right out. Clen the bottles out good with clean hot water and your good to go. Sanitize with StarSan on bottling day. This is what I do and it works just fine.

 

[unionrdr]

I rinse new bottles before putting them in PBW to soak overnight. Dish soap is pretty weak for this kind of crud. I've gotten mold out of everything with 1.5oz PBW per gallon of water. kills it & floats it right out,so the right tool for the job is needed here.
Also,are you pushing down on the brush when it's chucked in the drill? You could've nicked the snot out of the hump in the bottom of the bottle. Could even be left overs from where the mold atached itself to the glass. This is why I always use PBW. In the right dilution,it'll clean just about anything.

 

[kh54s10]

I soak my bottles in Oxyclean overnight to remove the labels. I then rinse and give a quick brush and rinse again. I rarely see anything left in the bottle after that. If so I soak it longer.

On bottling day I use a Vinator and Starsan, spritz each bottle and place them in the bottom rack of my dishwasher. I then fill a bottle place a cap on top and fill another etc... When they are all filled I crimp all the caps.

I have bottled approximately 35 five gallon batches and have had only one bottle that got infected. BTW, even that one tasted good, it was a bit sour.

As another poster stated, if you have a bottle that you can't easily clean - toss it!

 

[Tamir]

My friends, we don't have PBW or Oxiclean here. That's why I used dish soap.
Are there more generic compounds?

 

[unionrdr]

Search on here,there've been a couple threads where someone said how to make something close to PBW at home.

 

[Tamir]

I wouldn't like to prepare my own solutions at this stage. Will any oxygen stain remover (bleach / non bleach) work for this purpose? at what amount?

 

[ncbrewer]

My friends, we don't have PBW or Oxiclean here. That's why I used dish soap.
Are there more generic compounds?

There's a good article in BYO http://byo.com/cleaning-sanitation/item/1483-the-great-bottle-cleaning-shootout that has some info on other cleaners.

 

[Tamir]

Hi, thank you. This is a good article indeed, but most of these products are not available here, dish compound I've already tried and bleach is too nasty for home usage. Can you please answer my question?

I wouldn't like to prepare my own solutions at this stage. Will any oxygen stain remover (bleach / non bleach) work for this purpose? at what amount?

 

[unionrdr]

Use the uncented non-bleach one. Maybe use the same amount as those using oxyclean free.

 

[m3n00b]

I personally wouldn't use a bottle that had mold in it. Just wash the bottle out after drinking and sanitize on bottling day.

 

[Tamir]

Ofcourse, like I said, this is what I will do after I will have my beer in it. But now, I need to clean those.
Can someone relate to the pictures I took?

 

[unionrdr]

We have been. you need something stronger than dish soap to clean them. Not to mention dish soap residue will kill the head. Can you go online to get PBW,Starsan,etc? Is brewing legal in your country?

 

[Tamir]

Yes, of course it is legal.

But I don't have access to the same specific products that you mentioned. I can access starsan but I have a different sanizer right now - quaternary ammonium compound. But what I'm looking for is a cleaner, this is why I asked about general stain removers.

I wanted more opinions on my pictures, that was the purpose of this post.

 

[CastleHollow]

Since it's also on the outside of the bottle, you may just have some sort of soap film clinging to the glass. If bleach is available, I would opt for a diluted solution, soak overnight, and then just rinse with plain water and let dry. Sanitize right before you bottle, and you should be fine.

 

[kh54s10]

Oxyclean is an oxygen based cleaner. You can do a search to see if you can get something that is the same. Dish soaps contain ingredients that lessen water spotting, they will also kill the head on the beer. If you can't get something better I would use a weak solution of bleach, soak overnight then rinse very well.

 

[kh54s10]

I personally wouldn't use a bottle that had mold in it. Just wash the bottle out after drinking and sanitize on bottling day.

I got most of my bottles from friends that saved them for me. They just put most of them back in the box so MOST of them had mold in them. The glass will not hold onto mold so a good cleaning and proper sanitation is plenty.

I have had one infected bottle in 35+ batches. (more than 1800 bottles) That beer was sour but good!