Many of my bottles extract batches seem to become over carbonated after a month or so in bottles. I use the correct amount of priming sugar for the style I am brewing based on a priming calculator online. Many of my batches do not hit the intended FG, they usually finish 3-4 points higher than the recipes call for, even when I raise the fermentation temp, roust the fermenter, etc they still finish a bit high. I have read that extract will typically not hit the expected FG. My question: is it possible that some unfermented sugars left over after primary fermentation are getting fermented with the priming sugar and creating more carbonation? is there a formula to use to add in the suspected unfermented sugar when calculating priming sugar prior to bottling? Would using a different priming option (I use priming sugar) help eliminate this from happening, if it is indeed my issue?
Is over carbonation in bottles caused by high FG?
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JimTheHick
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Ive had beers that were rock solid via hydro readings before bottling and then 4 oz of sugar got them way overcarbed.
One was a Belgium with a bottling gravity of 1.013. After bottle conditioning it was 1.010. I think the simple sugar can kick off extra fermentation beyond the priming dose under certain circumstances. I won't use an more than 1/1 oz/gal now. And that is volume in the bottling bucket and not batch size.
One was a Belgium with a bottling gravity of 1.013. After bottle conditioning it was 1.010. I think the simple sugar can kick off extra fermentation beyond the priming dose under certain circumstances. I won't use an more than 1/1 oz/gal now. And that is volume in the bottling bucket and not batch size.
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nasmeyer
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I usually leave my beer in the primary 3-4 weeks, and don't usually have the final gravity change after 4-6 days depending on style. So I have to believe I am at the lowest the gravity is going to be after 3-4 weeks and should be able to safely bottle. Are you suggesting to let it sit longer than that?
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nasmeyer
Well-Known Member
My most recent over carb was a NB Dead Ringer 1.064 IPA that I only added 3.9 oz priming sugar based on volume and style per online calculator and it is also over carbed. I can vent and recap the bottles but would like to see if i can calculate the remaining unfermented sugar in the beer prior to adding a reduced amount of priming sugar, to ultimately carb up correctly. That batch finished about 3 points higher than the recipe called for.
Sometimes I think the yeast is going dormant near FG due to tempa at the time. Some yeasts are more sensative than others to temp changes. Other times,It can be old extact malt,or it may have been made with more un-fermentables like crystal malts.
Also to be taken into concideration is the higher the OG,the higher the FG.
Also to be taken into concideration is the higher the OG,the higher the FG.
BradleyBrew
Well-Known Member
If you are using a online calculator I would suspect that the biggest culprit is the guessing gaming when it some to the volume of co2 dissolved in your beer prior to bottling. It can play a large difference in the ultimate carbonation of the beer.
Well,that's the rub. The number in the "volumes of co2" box is an average of the total amount of beer in the bottling bucket,not how much was brewed. Of equal importance is the temp. It's asking for the highest temp it reached during fermentation. Then it gives the amount of priming sugar based on a calculated amount of dissolved co2 in the beer at that time.
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nasmeyer
Well-Known Member
The online calculator I use has a input for the highest fermentation temp the beer reached. I assume calculates for the remaining co2 in suspension.
BradleyBrew
Well-Known Member
Yeah but it's still a guessing game on that one. What if you rouse your yeast every few days. I know when I do the airlock goes crazy. This has to be Co2 leaving the beer / head space??
In your case,it's also off gassing dissolved co2 besides what's fermenting out. No need to rouse them every couple days.Only if it appears to need it to finish.
beergolf
Well-Known Member
Belgians can take a long time to finish and it is possible to think they are done when they still are working. I brew them often and have learned that you really do need to give them plenty of time and often heat them up slightly at the end to finish.
A good quote from Brew Like a Monk. " Let fermentation finish, perhaps at a higher temperature. It can take as long to get the last few points of attenuation as it does for the first 80%"
I know that's right. Those last couple of points can be a real bear to get fermented out.
beergolf
Well-Known Member
Yep. and if you don't get the last few points you get overcarbed beer at best, or even worse is bottle bombs.
I learned that very fast on one of my first Belgians. I was lucky that it was the first one... over carbed beer and not bombs.
BradleyBrew
Well-Known Member
Sorry I don't rouse every few days... I was kinda making an example if you did.
JimTheHick
Well-Known Member
unionrdr said:
It was my first Belgian, and I just HAD to finish it quick. The things I'm forced to do....
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nasmeyer
Well-Known Member
So a couple of new questions to my original thread. If I do have unfermented sugars left in my beer, might it ferment out in my bottles and create enough carbonation by itself and NOT need to add priming sugar? or does the priming sugar "kick start" the remaning unfermented sugar, therefore adding a small amount of priming sugar is still a good idea? I have always ramped up my fermentation temps from 64-65* to around 70* as primary fermentation is winding down, usually around the 3-4 day mark. Should I, or can I ramp the temp up higher than 70* and not be imparting off flavors due to higher temps? I either need to find a better way to hit my target FG or invest more money (which I do not have right now) to buy a kegging/co2 system and eliminate bottling altogether. What other tecniques do people use to hit FG with extracts?
prrriiide
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I wouldn't ramp the temps up above 70*. Most styles don't like it that warm and will give you some unintended flavors.
The best solution, in my mind is to look at your gravs differently. Take a reading a week after airlock activity has ceased. Wait two days and take another. Then another the next day. If the last two readings are the same, you've probably attenuated (unless it is a slow Belgian), and can bottle.*
I can't really talk to the priming sugar aspect, simply because I've never used it. I've always used a DME solution, and have never been too overly-carbed. I've had some on the high end and some on the low end, but most all have been just fine. I have yet to run into a priming calc that doesn't include a DME input. But I doubt that you have enough residual sugars left in the beer to skip a priming solution, if you have waited out your attenuation.
Regarding hitting the gravs...that isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless you are going for some sort of competition. A high OG/FG in an extract can be several things. Are you doing full boil? Might your boil-off rate be higher than expected? That would result in a higher OG, and possibly a higher FG. Are you using a starter for your yeast? Or re-hydrating the dry? What is your wort temp at pitching? That can have an effect on attenuation. You say that you ramp up your temps near the end of fermentation. Do you do it slowly over the course of a couple of days? Even a few degrees, if done abruptly, can stress the yeast.
*DISCLAIMER* I usually leave the beer on the yeast at least 2-4 weeks after fermentation is completed (as indicated by hydrometer readings) so that the yeasties can clean up after themselves and allow the beer to settle and clarify.
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nasmeyer
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I leave it in my primary 3-4 weeks, and get my apparent terminal FG after about 7 days. So I am at my FG 2-3 weeks before I bottle, but still never seem to hit the intended FG of the recipe.
I have not yet tried to prime with DME, and yes the calculator does have a setting for that.
Yes I do full boils, but I top off if I am higher than my intended OG. I use whatever starter Mr Malty tells me to use. I pitch as close to the 63-65* fermentation temps I will be using. And try to spread my 5* ramp up over 24 hour period, which I do as soon as I am 5 points above my FG.
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nasmeyer
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So would a simple answer to my original question be to just brew a lower SG batch? Maybe a 1.050 extract batch with wyeast 1056 would attenuate far enough to not leave enough residual sugar to over carbonate in conjunction with my priming sugar?
Not necessarily. The temperatures during the fermentation and the duration both play a role. For cleaner tasting beer you need the wort temperature near the bottom of the yeast's preferred temperature but when the easy work it over it may "go to sleep" at that temperature. To avoid that I've begun letting my beer (once it has alcohol it changes from wort to beer) warm up after the initial fast ferment is over to encourage the yeast to get the last of the sugars and clean up any off flavor compounds it might have thrown off. I usually keep it cool for a week and warm it up for another 2 to 4.
BrewGardenCA
Member
The Pilsner partial mash I did this summer, I thought, was going to be the best beer in the history of the world. And it is really good. But it's incredibly over carbonated. I used DME (and probably too much) but I think the real problem was that when I bottled, I should have racked one more time.
Out of the carboy, there was a lot of hops (from dry hopping) and yeast. That made it into the bottling bucket and then into the bottles. So, when I crack one open, it's over carbonated and then that kicks up the tonne of sediment in the bottle which creates a million more points for bubbles to form on and a volcanic chain reaction begins.
I just get a couple pint glasses ready to catch all the foam, or I put a bottle in the freezer so that when I open it, it turns into slush. When everything settles down in the glass, I don't have much carbonation in the glass, but it's a delicious beer.
Now my problem is I consistently under-carbonate, out of fear.
Out of the carboy, there was a lot of hops (from dry hopping) and yeast. That made it into the bottling bucket and then into the bottles. So, when I crack one open, it's over carbonated and then that kicks up the tonne of sediment in the bottle which creates a million more points for bubbles to form on and a volcanic chain reaction begins.
I just get a couple pint glasses ready to catch all the foam, or I put a bottle in the freezer so that when I open it, it turns into slush. When everything settles down in the glass, I don't have much carbonation in the glass, but it's a delicious beer.
Now my problem is I consistently under-carbonate, out of fear.
I am an extract brewer, and I have had two batches of beer do this. Both were carbed just right with 5oz. of priming sugar. I store my beer in plastic tubs in my pantry (temps 65-74 depending on season).
In both examples I was letting some of the bottles age to see if they tasted even better. after about 2 months, both were over-carbed to the point of a german hefeweizen, and I immediately put the rest of the stock in the fridge. Both of these beers had finished a tiny bit high, but not by much.
I'm assuming the yeast are slowly working on whatever leftover fermentables are available from the beer, NOT that there was too much priming sugar as the carb levels were great for over a month.
Here is what I have done to address this issue:
I let the beer sit in primary longer (3-4weeks, no secondary)
I refridgerate any beer that hasn't been drank after a few weeks
I drink the beer quicker
I don't believe this problem can be totally resolved by the home extract brewer who bottle conditions their beer. Just one of the limitations we have. For me, it has only been a small issue with just a few bottles of beer.
Pez.
In both examples I was letting some of the bottles age to see if they tasted even better. after about 2 months, both were over-carbed to the point of a german hefeweizen, and I immediately put the rest of the stock in the fridge. Both of these beers had finished a tiny bit high, but not by much.
I'm assuming the yeast are slowly working on whatever leftover fermentables are available from the beer, NOT that there was too much priming sugar as the carb levels were great for over a month.
Here is what I have done to address this issue:
I let the beer sit in primary longer (3-4weeks, no secondary)
I refridgerate any beer that hasn't been drank after a few weeks
I drink the beer quicker
I don't believe this problem can be totally resolved by the home extract brewer who bottle conditions their beer. Just one of the limitations we have. For me, it has only been a small issue with just a few bottles of beer.
Pez.
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nasmeyer
Well-Known Member
I always used the entire 5oz priming sugar until I found a priming calculator on-line. Most beer styles will only need 3 1/2 to 4 1/4oz of priming sugar, so as it turns out I was over priming with the entire 5oz, those ^%^&^&*^%$% recipe instructions never tell us that do they... I thought I had my problem solved with this, until I had some higher gravity brews still over carb on me. This is why I was assuming un-attenuated sugar my be my culprit. Seems as though my lower OG brews finish lower, and arent as likely to be over carbed either.I am an extract brewer, and I have had two batches of beer do this. Both were carbed just right with 5oz. of priming sugar. I store my beer in plastic tubs in my pantry (temps 65-74 depending on season).
Here is what I have done to address this issue:
I let the beer sit in primary longer (3-4weeks, no secondary)
I refridgerate any beer that hasn't been drank after a few weeks
I drink the beer quicker
I don't believe this problem can be totally resolved by the home extract brewer who bottle conditions their beer. Just one of the limitations we have. For me, it has only been a small issue with just a few bottles of beer.
Pez.
I like your other suggestions. One more idea is to uncap an over carbed beers for 5-10 minutes, and recap it with a new cap. Seems to work pretty well.
You are right about the beer styles and the amount of sugar. I always use 5 oz (5 1/2 for hefeweizens) just because I like that level of carbonation. I am sure some of my English styles are overcarbonated according to guidelines!
I like you suggestion of uncapping and recapping. I'm assuming if the beer is consumed in a short time span, you wouldn't have to worry much about oxidation.
Pez.
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