Is it Partial Mash?

[IL1kebeer]

Is it partial mash if you throw some two row, Munich, and some caramel malts into a grain bag and steep at 155 for 30mins? Or is that just pointless?

I guess my question is can partial mash be achieved by steeping?

 

[bennie1986]

No, to achieve a partial mash you need to actually mash those grains. Steeping the grains will result only in a bit of extra color and flavor.

 

[LuiInIdaho]

You raise an interesting question. When I mash it is in the 150 degree range, for 60 minutes, and in my mash tun.

I really think the difference between mashing and steeping is not about volume, time, or temp. It is really about whether starch is converted to sugar (as in using two row malt) which would be mashing Or using grains that have been roasted enough to not have any fermentable sugar through starch conversion. Grains that have no starch conversion are steeped. These include your crystal malts and other roasted grains. Mashing is for grains that will add fermentable sugar. These grains would be all your base grains.

I guess that I mash and steep at the same time in my mash tun because I mix all the grains together. Whether it is mashing or steeping really depends on the particular grain.

Mark

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Is it partial mash if you throw some two row, Munich, and some caramel malts into a grain bag and steep at 155 for 30mins? Or is that just pointless?

I guess my question is can partial mash be achieved by steeping?

You just described BIAB (brew in a bag) mashing! 2-row and Munich have enzymes and will convert starch into sugar. They will provide enzymes to convert grains that cannot convert themselves such as crystal. Most modern malts are highly modified and will convert in 30 minutes or so, though most of us mash for 60 to make sure we get full conversion. 155 is a good mash temp for a less fermentable wort. I prefer drier beers so I mash lower, between 148 & 152 depending on the style. If you did what you described you will make wort and will have successfully brewed an all grain batch. If you added extract to your wort you will have made a partial mash. Brew it brother! Check out Deathbrewer's Easy Partial Mash with Pics thread.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Check out Deathbrewer's Easy Partial Mash with Pics thread.

I've read that thread and it kinda prompted me to ask this question. The pics looks like a typical BIAB mash and I then I started wondering if I could just steep to get the same results. Was hoping someone has tried this before so that I don't have to experiment. Theoretically it should work but I haven't done any mashing before so I'm not entirely confident in my theory.

 

[ArcaneXor]

If you do a regular extract steep around 150 degrees and add base malts, you are mashing. You may not realize it, and the mash may not be particularly efficient, but that's what you are doing.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

If you do a regular extract steep around 150 degrees and add base malts, you are mashing. You may not realize it, and the mash may not be particularly efficient, but that's what you are doing.

Yup! I was scared to death of AG but I figured I'd take a shot at PM after reading Deathbrewer's write up. Looked fairly easy, pretty much like steeping grains with more grains and a little more control over temps. After 2 batches I realized that AG was pretty easy, there was nothing to be afraid of, built my first tun, and never looked back! Give it a shot and see for yourself. I bet you make beer!

 

[Walking_Target]

The question is answered in brew science.

Mashing is converting starches to sugars.

Steeping is extracting flavor from grains or spices.

If you're in the conversion ballpark (145*f to about 155*f) you'll get some enzyme activity. If you're doing it with the appropriate water volume, you're mashing (1.25q to 1.5q per lb of grain is a good rule of thumb for water volume)

The key here is enzyme activity making sugars. You could steep crystal malts at 150*f under ideal conversion conditions, but it'll still be a steep because there's no enzymes to convert starch to sugar.

Long story short: Congrats. That's technically a partial mash. Welcome to the big leagues.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Thanks for the awesome replies and positive feedback. Will try this on my next batch.

 

[BlackGoat]

Yup! I was scared to death of AG but I figured I'd take a shot at PM after reading Deathbrewer's write up.

Its seriously so easy once you get the basics down. I'm now doing only AG brews using this method with awesome results. The only equipment upgrades I needed was a $6 grain bag. Can't recommend this more highly for those doing PM batches and avoiding making the jump.

 

[JABBY]

Slowly gathering the knowledge and the equipment to do AG. As of right now PM is my favored method.

 

[JABBY]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/
and here is the link.

 

[Babybatch]

Yep. I've been reading that Easy Partial Mash thread to death. I have yet to do a single brew. I've been reading and consulting with the great folks here at HBT. After all of this I am beginning to feel quite comfortable with my head knowledge. I'm debating going right into the PM rather that Extract for my first batch. This will give me some practical application of what I've been studying.

I was a little confused because it seems like DeathBrewer mashes off of heat and even mentions that his mash drops to 140 even when he wrapped it for insulating against heat loss. Others seem to indicate that the mash should be kept at a consistent temp (usually 148-158F for 30-90 minutes) for the the duration of the mash. Any thoughts on this?

Oops! I thought that this was an active thread.

 

[BlackGoat]

I do my BIAB mashes on a stovetop and I do not use heat. I may add a bit of hot water to increase the temperature during the mash, but generally I just leave the temperature alone once I've mashed in and let the temps fall. Works great! With partial mash, you have a small mash tun (typically most people use a standard size stock pot that you might have around for cooking) so you have the option of throwing it in the oven set to warm to help preserve the heat. Either way is fine.

 

[LuiInIdaho]

I was a little confused because it seems like DeathBrewer mashes off of heat and even mentions that his mash drops to 140 even when he wrapped it for insulating against heat loss. Others seem to indicate that the mash should be kept at a consistent temp (usually 148-158F for 30-90 minutes) for the the duration of the mash. Any thoughts on this?

Your concern relates to conversion of the starch into sugar. You would do better to maintain a constant temperature to ensure starch conversion rather than allow your mash temperature to drop during the 30 to 90 minute mash cycle. Although it might be possible to have complete conversion when you have a 12 to 18 degree temperature drop during mashing, I would rest more assured of having complete conversion if the temperature was properly maintained in the appropriate range.

I use an eleven gallon kettle that is installed in a 10 gallon Rubbermaid Drink Cooler. With this setup I am able to maintain my temperature within two or three degrees over a 60 minute mash.

I hope that this helps.

Mark

 

[mikedibens]

I'm no expert, so take with a grain of salt.

I've done about 20 partial mash batches. I steep my grains with the lid on my pot and wrap a towel around it. After 30 mins the temp has typically gone a bit lower than the right range. At 30 minutes I turn on the gas burner, being careful not to burn the bag holding the grains. At 170 I pull the bag out. I then add the LME and carry on. I've been very pleased with the results.

Just get stuck in and do it! Or, just relax ,and have a homebrew.

I have an electric kettle which I also started using recently (last 5 batches). I boil a full pot with the kettle just as my steeping grains are almost done. I pour one batch of that into the pot to help me get to 170 quicker. I immediately start another kettle, but pull it off at 170. I then lift the steeping grains up, then pour the 170 degree water over the side if the steeping grains to get a bit more of the goodness out. I do this around the same time the liquid in the pot is at 170.

Have fun

 

[hbrookie]

Is it partial mash if you throw some two row, Munich, and some caramel malts into a grain bag and steep at 155 for 30mins? Or is that just pointless?

I guess my question is can partial mash be achieved by steeping?

Since you have enzymatic grains and you're in the proper temp range for mashing, you're technically mashing. 30 minutes isn't enough to maximize your conversion though.


The reason for steeping grains is for more color and flavor, but since you've got the enzymatics in there anyway, you may as well leave it for 45-60 minutes and get your money's worth out of your grain.

 

[Peppers16]

That's all it takes (well, 60 minutes instead of 30, ideally). I was going to a partial mash with this method, then after plugging the numbers in some brewing software, ended-up skipping straight to all grain! (basically 3-4 kg of base malt roughly matches two tins of extract I think)
The jump to AG isn't nearly as dramatic as people make it sound. Personally I think that the whole "mash in a converted cooler" thing will get ushered-out when BIAB catches on.

 

[Babybatch]

That's all it takes (well, 60 minutes instead of 30, ideally). I was going to a partial mash with this method, then after plugging the numbers in some brewing software, ended-up skipping straight to all grain! (basically 3-4 kg of base malt roughly matches two tins of extract I think)
The jump to AG isn't nearly as dramatic as people make it sound. Personally I think that the whole "mash in a converted cooler" thing will get ushered-out when BIAB catches on.

Guess you just need a bit Kettle and a big bag and big forearms for stirring.

 

[Peppers16]

[Double post, sorry]

 

[Peppers16]

Guess you just need a bit Kettle and a big bag and big forearms for stirring.

Obtaining a large bag and stirring grains in 25L of water aren't hard, but yes i'll admit you still need to invest in a decently sized pot for all-grain whatever method you use.

 

[ram5ey]

Crystal malts have already converted. They do not need base malt enzymes as they are converted in the hull during the malting process and thus they can be steeped.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Obtaining a large bag and stirring grains in 25L of water aren't hard, but yes i'll admit you still need to invest in a decently sized pot for all-grain whatever method you use.

What's the smallest pot size you recommend for a 5 gallon batch?
I'm considering moving to AG (or at least trying it). I've got a 5 gallon (18.9 liters) kettle and a smaller stock-pot (I believe 2 gallons/7.5 liters). I was thinking mashing with 4 gallons and topping off with boiled water.

Can I make it work with that or do I need a bigger kettle?

 

[Babybatch]

What's the smallest pot size you recommend for a 5 gallon batch?
I'm considering moving to AG (or at least trying it). I've got a 5 gallon (18.9 liters) kettle and a smaller stock-pot (I believe 2 gallons/7.5 liters). I was thinking mashing with 4 gallons and topping off with boiled water.

Can I make it work with that or do I need a bigger kettle?

Yeah. That's about where Im at. The "Easy Partial Mash" thread/walkthrough suggested 2 x 5 gallon pots if I remember. . And it seemed to be fine.

 

[Oddball]

You raise an interesting question. When I mash it is in the 150 degree range, for 60 minutes, and in my mash tun.

I really think the difference between mashing and steeping is not about volume, time, or temp. It is really about whether starch is converted to sugar (as in using two row malt) which would be mashing Or using grains that have been roasted enough to not have any fermentable sugar through starch conversion. Grains that have no starch conversion are steeped. These include your crystal malts and other roasted grains. Mashing is for grains that will add fermentable sugar. These grains would be all your base grains.

I guess that I mash and steep at the same time in my mash tun because I mix all the grains together. Whether it is mashing or steeping really depends on the particular grain.

Mark

Exactly this. I spoke with head brewer from a major brewery in Oklahoma not long ago who said they were mashing for an average of 15 min and the result was just as good as when they were mashing for 60 min. He cited the profiles from his grain distributor saying that much of the available sugars are present in the mash much sooner than previously thought to be.

A little something extra...

See the chart in this article by Kai:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Starch_Conversion

The chart shows a fairly minimal increase in fermentable extract after the 10 minute mark, and what is arguably a negligible increase after 30 minutes (particularly at the higher temperatures shown).

His article about iodine starch testing shows an empirical example which he considers to be "iodine negative" after a 40 minute mash.

Link here: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Iodine_Test

Shortening mash times is not a new suggestion. Here's another thread on the topic: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/20-minute-mash-302811/

A very short mash with complete conversion and proper fermentability depends on making conditions as ideal as possible. An inability (or lack of desire) to control grain crush, mash thickness, mash temperature, water chemistry, and/or pH to within rather tight tolerances will lead to suboptimal results. A longer mash will overcome many adverse conditions.