Bubbles2
Well-Known Member
I see recipes that call for Boiling water atop of the diced fruit. I was wondering what is the deal with the boiling water? Needed? I thought Campden does the trick..
PU's ?Heat pasteurization is the only way to kill all the wild microbes (and you actually have to above a high enough number of PUs).
Many wild microbes aren't killed by sulfite. Sulfite just knocks them down a little so your pitched yeast can get through fermentation uninhibited ... Then you add sulfite after fermentation to make sure they don't cause problems over the long term.
Or you can let the wild microbes just do their thing because they're actually really good most of the time (in wine).
Cheers
This is simply my opinion but I suspect that those who add boiling water to their fruit come to wine making from brewing and the assumption in brewing is that you must (pun intended) boil your wort. Boiling wort is a "recent" addition since before the use of hops there was no need to boil wort. The temperature (and length of time) at which you extract enzymes from the mash is enough to pasteurize the wort.
The other "rationale" for adding boiling water is that the wine maker is hoping to extract more flavor from the fruit but a) maceration extracts a great deal of flavor from fruit. b) water itself is a solvent and will extract some flavor, and c) the alcohol you produce during fermentation is a far better solvent and will extract more flavor and so you may want to leave the fruit in the wine for a few days after you pitch the yeast, and d) for even more flavor you could add more fruit to the secondary when making country wines.
Boiling water cooks the fruit and while cooked fruit is delicious in compotes and jams, wines tend to taste far better when uncooked fruit is used (although I gotta admit that I sometimes use jams to make my fruit wines especially when the fruit is too exotic for me to find fresh.
That's a myth. Star San does kill wild yeast.Star San will not kill wild yeast.
Its always good to practice safe kitchen. However as we meander down this path, it was the boiling water and why, and of course deviations. I prob will not bother with boiled water, considering the blanch or PU's.That's a myth. Star San does kill wild yeast.
More info here:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Quality_Assurance
There is also an unpublished study I saw from a scientist in the MTF group finding that Star San is effective at killing up to 100 cells/mL (this is much less than iodophor for example, but still plenty adequate for use as a surface sanitizer).
Maybe Star San kills viruses too. I haven't seen anything about this and haven't researched it since viruses are completely unconcerning for our purposes.
For what it's worth, myself and many others that deal with wild yeast effectively avoid contamination while using Star San as our sanitizer.
For example I bottle Brett mixed fermentations and wild fementations on the same bottling equipment as my clean beers.
If there were any actual evidence to back up claims that it's ineffective, I wouldn't be using it.
Still, there's nothing wrong with using iodophor, bleach/vinegar, or other effective options.
The hydrogen peroxide in any percarbonate-based cleaner like PBW or Oxiclean is also antimicrobial, which adds another layer of protection against cross-contamination.
Hope this makes sense. Cheers!
1. Pathogenic viruses on fruit? Nah!
RDWHAHB!
Cheers
Pathogenic BACTERIA are also killed by the combination of ethanol and acid. Sulfite is an additional layer of protection.you cannot sell, say apple juice in NYS unless the apples have been UV pasteurized because of problems with e-coli and listeria - and those problems are caused by fruit being harvested from the ground that has been subject to animal spoor.
So by staying under this blanket we are safe?ethanol and acid. Sulfite
PU's ?
Thanks will start using Boil water, been doing it with Campden and Sulphite on the back sweet
Pathogenic BACTERIA are also killed by the combination of ethanol and acid. Sulfite is an additional layer of protection.
Wine ain't fruit juice and fruit juice ain't wine.
There's no monster under the bed.
At what concentration of alcohol is listeria killed? At what pH do you kill e-coli? I am not being snarky. I am seriously asking. I am not disagreeing with you but does every wine kill these microbes or only very acidic and very alcoholic wines, and if one makes cider (5% abv?) how likely is it that there will be sufficient ethanol and a low enough pH to do the job?
Have you made wines with cooked fruit? There are plenty of threads here where people do heat-pasteurize fruit, boil the juice, make wine from jam/jelly/preserves, etc. LOTS of ciders are made from pasteurized juice. Plenty of people also further pasteurize the cider after fermentation.But in wine, a "cooked fruit" taste is undesirable in most cases.
Assigning a particular ABV level would be pretty arbitrary. A 70% ethanol solution kills these bacteria in seconds. A 5% ethanol solution kills these bacteria in days-weeks. Lower ABV may take months.At what concentration of alcohol is listeria killed? At what pH do you kill e-coli? I am not being snarky. I am seriously asking. I am not disagreeing with you but does every wine kill these microbes or only very acidic and very alcoholic wines, and if one makes cider (5% abv?) how likely is it that there will be sufficient ethanol and a low enough pH to do the job?
But you had to get you’re drink from the church, as it was monks that did the brewing. It was a tonic and medicinal too since they usually added spices and herbs to add some nutrients for the masses.Used to be people didn't drink straight water. It was made into beer/ale, or mixed with wine to make it safe(er) to drink..... I was born to
late.....
Have you made wines with cooked fruit? There are plenty of threads here where people do heat-pasteurize fruit, boil the juice, make wine from jam/jelly/preserves, etc. LOTS of ciders are made from pasteurized juice. Plenty of people also further pasteurize the cider after fermentation.
Why is ok to only boil sometimes? Does boiling the bananas people add in undesirable "cooked" banana taste? (I have baked bananas and they're good.)
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