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Is double crush a waste of time?
- Thread starter North_of_60
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If LHBSs would just set the mill gap properly, then shop owners wouldn't need to complain about everyone asking for a double crush.
I do, but I don't remember if it's after the first run or the second. I was just taking pics for friends but I want to say it's just one run.
I am getting roughly 90% efficiency in my BIAB setup.
here are a few pics though.
For the love of pete, buy a cereal killer, lock it down to the smallest setting, and stop submitting your sweet, sweet barley to that stanky communal grain mill at your lhbs. Grist is a deeply personal matter, would you rent underpants? Buy a proper mill already. I love my mill, we have such a great time together the morning of a brew day. It's like a trusty labrador, always eager to join me on my brewing adventures. I feel I speak for a lot of us when I say that a good dependable grain mill is one of those pieces of equipment you'll get sentimental about and an investment you'll never regret.
toddo97
Well-Known Member
^This! I used my CK for the first time this weekend and loved it. I even hand cranked to see how that would be and will probably keep doing it that way until my arm gives out!
+1 for hand-cranking! Build some real beer muscles! I do use my beloved BOSCH 18V cordless drill to finish up when I start to break a sweat or really need to hurry.
I watch people dumping sacks of grain into the motorized mill at my LHBS, it's about as passionless as a paper shredder. Nothing about beer making should be cold or transactional.
toddo97
Well-Known Member
To be fair, it was only a 3 gallon batch so I imagine once the novelty wears off, I'll start reaching for my power drill! It did make it seem like I was a lot more 'in the process' than just dumping pre-crushed grains.
iahebert
Well-Known Member
I must be lucky. My LHBS (the Brew Hut in Aurora, CO) is totally cool when it comes to double milling. They have two self serve mills, and the first time I double milled, they said, "wait, it sounds like the gap isn't fine enough" and then go "oh, are you doing BIAB? Then you're good".
No crap, BS, or anything else, and they said they do the same thing.
No crap, BS, or anything else, and they said they do the same thing.
Looks alright. I've seen better, I've seen worse.
Mer-man
Well-Known Member
A LHBS will set it coarse to both save their mill and to get you to buy more malt . . . wait for it . . .
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assuming you only mash for 60 minutes, which is the standard. Someone earlier touched on a key element: stirring will help hydrate the starch.
Once everything is hydrated and at the temp that the starches gelatinize, osmotic pressure will push the converted sugars into solution.
RDWHAHB
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assuming you only mash for 60 minutes, which is the standard. Someone earlier touched on a key element: stirring will help hydrate the starch.
Once everything is hydrated and at the temp that the starches gelatinize, osmotic pressure will push the converted sugars into solution.
RDWHAHB
BruceH
Mostly Retired
I'm brewing in 5 gallon batches with a corona type mill. It takes about 15 minutes of hand cranking to mill 10 lbs. of grain for a batch. Efficiency has been around 75 - 80% using disposable bags. I mash for 90 minutes. Efficiency depends on temps and how much the malt has been kilned.
IIRC the mill was less than $40 shipped. I converted it to run off an electric drill but realized I prefer to crank it by hand so that's how it's set up.
I'm very glad I have the ability to mill. It doesn't have to be expensive to work.
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North_of_60
Well-Known Member
My Cereal Killer mill arrived yesterday late. I didn’t get to unbox it because I had to leave for Alaska to work. I work pretty much two weeks on, two weeks off. This time I’m on a 16 day shift.
When I get home I’ll set th new mill up and do a finer crush on the grains I already have for a Porter. They were already double crushed and look pretty good. But, I have a new mill, got to use it, right? I’m thinking of setting it with a credit card to start off with. That seems to be a method BIAB brewers are frequently using. I’ll take before and after pictures. But for now, I have to pay the bills.
When I get home I’ll set th new mill up and do a finer crush on the grains I already have for a Porter. They were already double crushed and look pretty good. But, I have a new mill, got to use it, right? I’m thinking of setting it with a credit card to start off with. That seems to be a method BIAB brewers are frequently using. I’ll take before and after pictures. But for now, I have to pay the bills.
North_of_60, I shopped at that store and had the same problem asking for double crush. They used to charge extra for a double crush. I stopped asking for the double crush awhile ago. I also recently bought a mill so I can control things better.
I wanted to set the mill properly and the feeler gauge I bought was covered in machine oil. Is this common or do they sell feeler gauges that will not corrode and need to be oiled. No way I’m sticking that in my mill.
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North_of_60
Well-Known Member
I have two feeler gauges that are not oily, one is stainless steel and the other is brass. You could wash yours with dish soap and then oil it again after using it if you think it might rust.
I measured a couple of credit cards with a micrometer, they measured .032 I might start with that although I was thinking of setting it a little closer.
What are you thinking of setting yours at?
If you tighten up your Corona mill your efficiency will go up, you need less grain for the same brew, and you will have full conversion well before the 90 minutes are up.
Good to know about SS feelers. I’ll look for those. Right now I just used my Flying Saucer UFO membership card to set a gap. I’m hoping to brew next week so I’ll try to report back and when I get some gauges measure the gap properly
Your steel feeler gauge is covered in a packing oil that the manufacturer uses to prevent rust while it is on the shelf. Wash it off and use it, store it in a reasonably dry place and it should last you a lifetime.
A stainless feeler gauge might serve a purpose for servicing medical equipment lol, but a carbon steel gauge is fine imo.
A stainless feeler gauge might serve a purpose for servicing medical equipment lol, but a carbon steel gauge is fine imo.
I brewed on Saturday first BIAB ever and preboil target was 1.032 I ended up with 1.030, after boil gravity into fermenter was 1.040 suppose to have been 1.044...so all in all I'm pleased with that came out dark was also a Irish Stout lol
I brewed a Belgian Pale Ale today. The gap was 0.035 measured with a feeler gauge. Pretty fine crush with a lot of flour. I got a little better efficiency then some of my previous brews. I did not double crush since the first run looked pretty fine compared to the crush I would get at the store.
Looks good. You could keep it there, or consider cranking down just an eensy bit tighter.
Drewed
Well-Known Member
I just my spin my crush from the LHBS (which I found has their two mills set at different crushes -50 and 40- ) through the food processor for 5-10 pluses. It takes a pound at a time down to a nice small size with not too much flour. I know it’s not ideal, but it’s what I have.
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North_of_60
Well-Known Member
That looks good. It’s finer than I was getting with my commercial coffee grinder and a lot finer than what the brew shop crushes for me.
I’ll try the credit card for setting mine and post when I get some grain milled. Maybe that will be the eensy bit tighter that dmtaylor suggests.
I get between 84% and 86% with .030 setting on my commercial farm rolling mill. I am happy.
I did a barleywine a few years ago and my drill died less than a pound in on the 25lb grain bill so I hand-cranked the rest. I can't count how many times I busted my knuckles but that beer sure was good!
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North_of_60
Well-Known Member
When you do a double crush is because the rollers on the mill are spaced to far apart to get the fine crush that BIAB brewers prefer. So it’s just a way of getting a little closer to the desired size grist without having to readjust the mill. Brew shops don’t like to readjust their mill for every customer. I can’t blame them for that. It’s not ideal but it does help. If you have your own mill, set the roller spacing to a close tolerance and run it through once.
I don’t know what an ideal spacing for BIAB is. I’ve read that folks here are setting their mills anywhere from .025 to .035 and are getting good results with one pass. I haven’t set my mill up yet but will probably start somewhere in the middle and go from there.
I just want to chime in here and say that, thanks to this thread, I will be buying myself a grain mill for my next big brewing purchase.
I've found that the grain mills at the LHBS I've frequented in the past are definitely not setup for BIAB, and my latest brewday yesterday is testament to that. I was brewing a simple wheat beer, 50/50 barley and wheat, and I got a horrendous efficiency. After looking at the grist, I noticed that the wheat, especially, had barely been crushed... Not cool... not cool...
I've found that the grain mills at the LHBS I've frequented in the past are definitely not setup for BIAB, and my latest brewday yesterday is testament to that. I was brewing a simple wheat beer, 50/50 barley and wheat, and I got a horrendous efficiency. After looking at the grist, I noticed that the wheat, especially, had barely been crushed... Not cool... not cool...
I haven't seen a LHBS yet that was set up to mill wheat correctly. It just doesn't fit their "one-size-fits-all" mentality.
@North_of_60 I notice your location says Justin, TX, I grew up right down the road.
Which home brew store are you talking about in the OP?
I used to have the same problem at a particular LHBS in DFW.
[Edit]
Oh, went back and saw you already posted it's the one in Haltom City. I actually just visited this store for my first time this last Saturday, only store in DFW that had Fermcap in stock! Struck me as a pretty nice store. I didn't buy grains from them though...
Which home brew store are you talking about in the OP?
I used to have the same problem at a particular LHBS in DFW.
[Edit]
Oh, went back and saw you already posted it's the one in Haltom City. I actually just visited this store for my first time this last Saturday, only store in DFW that had Fermcap in stock! Struck me as a pretty nice store. I didn't buy grains from them though...
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North_of_60
Well-Known Member
Ya, they are a good store with a good inventory. I’ll keep shopping there.
Even with your own mill, wheat is a problematic grain as it is smaller and harder than barley. It will work best if you crush all the barley first, then reset the mill tighter for the wheat.
Or crush the wheat to your liking first, then never touch the settings on the mill again.
bubba_drums
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FWIW: I brewed 3 batches this weekend. I don't own a crusher and I just bought kits from 2 online HBS. 2 kits I was able to order double crushed from one retailer. The other kit was from a different retailer and was just a single crush. Guess which kit didn't come close to the calculated OG and I had to augment with some DME.
The second finer crush is absolutely worth the time. A 3 roller mill just shot way up on my brewing toys wanted list.
The second finer crush is absolutely worth the time. A 3 roller mill just shot way up on my brewing toys wanted list.
