IPA's getting FG down

[eaglewwit]

I am on my fourth IPA. They all have turned out well, but I can't seem to get the Final Gravity below 1.020. My first three were in the fermenters for 3 weeks, and they all seemed to finish at 1.020. This last one, I used my new SS conical fermenter, it has been in there for 16 days, and for the last week the gravity has been 1.020. It looks fine, but what do I need to do to get these to a lower FG.

 

[ThickHead]

If you are doig extract batches you may find that 1.020 is the best you will get depending on your recipe. There are more unfermentables in extracts. This is why you have a hard time getting the FG down.

 

[Brew-boy]

I have the opposite problem, last two IPA's were 1.009 and 1.011 I wanted 1.012-1.014 I even mashed 5 degrees hotter on the second batch.

 

[eaglewwit]

Yes, they are extract. I think I will bottle tomorrow, day 17. Working towards the AG setup.

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

I have seen them use white table sugar in saison's to dry them out. You think you could replace some of the Extract with this and dry it out a few more points?

 

[jackson_d]

As far as I undertand it, a pound of corn sugar is a normal addition to the IIPA style. Try that next brew day, will dry the beer out slightly and possibly help the yeast stay awake longer too.

:rockin:

 

[bob1852]

are you temp correcting your OG and FG? and is your hydrometer reading accurately?

 

[eaglewwit]

I think the temps are pretty close +- 5 degrees. Using the same hydrometer, so shouldn't matter. I like the sugar idea. I might try that next time.

 

[david_42]

Traditional IPAs used cane sugar to dry them out.

 

[cookietruck]

I think the temps are pretty close +- 5 degrees. Using the same hydrometer, so shouldn't matter. I like the sugar idea. I might try that next time.

he's implying that maybe your hydrometer is reading 1.20 when the gravity is actually lower...

 

[eaglewwit]

Touche,

I bottled last night. In a week I will have a couple and see how I feel. Then I will know if the alcohol level got to IPA level. Next time it is cane sugar.

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

Im thinking of doing the same next time I brew my Ninkasi IPA extract clone. Has anyone ever use cane sugar in there IPA? How did it turn out. Hot alcohol? Or good? Guess it would be just as easy to do all grain and mash low

 

[cookietruck]

so you want your FG low because of ABV not because of mouthfeel or some other reason?

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

To make it dry and nock down the sweatness is why I want a low FG on an IPA

 

[mordantly]

dry=less sweet

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

Thats what I said isnt it

 

[jackson_d]

Dont use cane sugar. Use corn sugar, dextrose. typically about 1#

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

jackson 5 what is the diffrence in the end product from useing one or the other? I have never used either yet and would like to know the pros and cons of each.

 

[jackson_d]

dont exactly have pros or cons to each. corn sugar is 100% fermentable though, while cane sugar is not. cane sugar (table sugar, right?) might be like 95% fermentable, which might leave a slight sweetness, but probably nothing you can taste... i just am a huge fan of the IIPA style, and most the recipes i view and compare and select and combine all use about 1# of corn sugar. seems to help beers above 8 or 9% fully ferment. i have had a few IIPAs get to 1.012 in just 3 weeks... the lack of sweetness lets the 100+ IBUs really shine...

 

[permo]

I recently brewed an extract IPA, I added 2# honey at the end of the boil. OG was 1.069 and FG is 1.008. It is the best extract brew I made before I switched to all grain.

 

[TheBulge]

Sugar will help to some extent. Just replace some of the gravity points from the malt with sugar. I use cane sugar exclusively(for priming too). A pound in IIPA's and some times a bit in IPA's if I really want them dry.

Some other ideas for getting better attenuation
Mash at a lower temp.
Limit the amount of crystal malt. I like about 7% in IPA's.
Use high quality yeast at the proper pitch rate.
Aerate the wort.
Note that some extracts are notorious for under attenuation.

 

[JKoravos]

dont exactly have pros or cons to each. corn sugar is 100% fermentable though, while cane sugar is not. cane sugar (table sugar, right?) might be like 95% fermentable, which might leave a slight sweetness, but probably nothing you can taste... i just am a huge fan of the IIPA style, and most the recipes i view and compare and select and combine all use about 1# of corn sugar. seems to help beers above 8 or 9% fully ferment. i have had a few IIPAs get to 1.012 in just 3 weeks... the lack of sweetness lets the 100+ IBUs really shine...

I thought table sugar was essentially 100% sucrose. I've never heard that it wasn't completely fermentable.

Sugar, sucrose, white table sugar, which is stripped of all vitamins, minerals, fiber, amino acids and trace elements during the refining process, is pure sucrose. At 99.5 to 99.9% pure sucrose, it is one of the purest chemicals manufactured. Powdered sugar is only pulverized table sugar.

 

[Munsoned]

My understanding is that if you keep the sugar addition under 10-15% of your total fermentables, it won't matter if you use corn or table sugar--both will ferment out fine and there won't be enough in the batch to taste any difference between the two. Both will help dry the beer out too, as everyone else has already stated. Adding sugar is almost necessary in this style, especially if you're doing a double IPA or something "big," to get the balance right.

Edit: Most brewing calculators I've seen show cane sugar to be 100% fermentable, and corn sugar to be ~95%, FWIW.

 

[TexLaw]

Ugh. You won't catch me putting any corn or cane sugar in any of my IIPAs. I guess it is a matter of taste, though.

Corn sugar (dextrose) typically is preferred over cane sugar (sucrose) because it is more fermentable and because sucrose can leave a cidery off flavor in your final beer. As the others have said, with only a single pound in an IIPA, you should not be able to tell any difference.

However, I am more concerned that you may have a different problem with a different solution. What is your OG, what yeast are you using, and what do you do to ferment the beer? What is your recipe?

If your OG is something like 1.090 or above, you probably are fully attenuated and may be able to simply adjust your IBUs to a better balance. If you are using a yeast that is not among the most attenuative or alcohol tolerant, you just may be able to switch that out. If you ferment in less than optimal conditions, you may be able to fix that. If you use a bunch of crystal or other unfermentables (on top of an extract that may already contain the same thing), you may be able to fix that.

I wouldn't just jump for the sugar before you examine the rest of your process and, maybe, learn something that could improve all your beers.


TL

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

Well I bottled my beer today it came out 1.020. This is the same as the (OP) had. Has anyone been getting a lower FG with extract brews? Seems to me if know one is then its not the process but the extract that is the issue. Yes I could up my IBU's but I dont really like big bitter beers and would rather just dry out what I have. Maybe a chainge in the grain bill is in order. Eaglewwit sorry I kinda hi jacked your thread but im working on the same issue.

 

[moti_mo]

Ugh. You won't catch me putting any corn or cane sugar in any of my IIPAs. I guess it is a matter of taste, though.

Corn sugar (dextrose) typically is preferred over cane sugar (sucrose) because it is more fermentable and because sucrose can leave a cidery off flavor in your final beer. As the others have said, with only a single pound in an IIPA, you should not be able to tell any difference.
...

I wouldn't just jump for the sugar before you examine the rest of your process and, maybe, learn something that could improve all your beers.


TL

I have to completely disagree with the implication that using cane sugar gives a beer with cidery off flavors. That (organic turbinado sugar specifically) is what I use to dry out ALL of my bigger Belgians and have also uesd it on IIPAs. It does not leave a cidery taste at all, provided you do not use too much - keep the sugar to less than or equal to 15% (20% at the very max.) of the total weight of fermentables.

Many commercial breweries use cane sugar for their bigger beers. In fact, when I took the Pike Brewery tour in Seattle, I looked over to the corner where they had supplies, and I saw a huge bag of the exact same turbinado sugar I use for my Trippel, and I asked them what they used it for. They also use it for their Trippel, which I thought was extremely tasty - and the reason they use it is the same as mine - to dry it out by getting the FG down , and because its economical - you can get that sugar in bulk at Costco.

Also, check out some professional brewers' recipes in articles from Zymurgy or the like. Vince from Russian River uses corn sugar in his Pliny the Elder recipe.

So, in my personal opinion, I think using corn sugar or turbinado sugar or whatever sugar you prefer, to dry out an IPA or IIPA is a great (and proven) strategy. The one thing you want to make sure of before going with a particular sugar is to really analyze the smell and taste - some of that will find its way into the finished product. For example, many turbinado and organic cane sugars have raisin or date type flavors that will work great in some types of beers and not as well in others.

My 2 cents.

 

[ThickHead]

Well I bottled my beer today it came out 1.020. This is the same as the (OP) had. Has anyone been getting a lower FG with extract brews? Seems to me if know one is then its not the process but the extract that is the issue. Yes I could up my IBU's but I dont really like big bitter beers and would rather just dry out what I have. Maybe a chainge in the grain bill is in order. Eaglewwit sorry I kinda hi jacked your thread but im working on the same issue.

All my extract brews, so far, have ended with an FG of 1.020. IPA and Oktoberfest have been the styles that i have brewed. All of them have been delicious at 1.020. Now, I will say that the IPA certainly has enough hops and bitterness to counter-balance any additional sweetness from the unfermentables and the Oktoberfest is malty enough to likewise off-set any additional sweetness from the unfermentables so I have not really sweated it much. If the beer is good, I am not likely to complain about a slightly higher FG than I would like. Now if i have the same issue when I step up to AG then I will be concerned. But as far as extracts go, I wouldn't sweat it unless it is just not good beer due to being overly sweet.

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

Its good but I am trying to clone Ninkasi's IPA and would like to get it down too 1.015 or so. I am close very close and will get it this next time. This has been a great thread. Thanks to everyone for sharing you know how

 

[atromic]

My first two extract brews both stopped at 1.020. I switched to Nottingham and added some fermentation control (my house was rather cold at 62-63) and my current batches are both below 1.020.

My Irish red is at 1.015 and my American Amber is at 1.018. I expect both of them to ferment out a couple more points by the time I bottle this weekend.

 

[ThickHead]

All my extract brews, so far, have ended with an FG of 1.020. IPA and Oktoberfest have been the styles that i have brewed. All of them have been delicious at 1.020. Now, I will say that the IPA certainly has enough hops and bitterness to counter-balance any additional sweetness from the unfermentables and the Oktoberfest is malty enough to likewise off-set any additional sweetness from the unfermentables so I have not really sweated it much. If the beer is good, I am not likely to complain about a slightly higher FG than I would like. Now if i have the same issue when I step up to AG then I will be concerned. But as far as extracts go, I wouldn't sweat it unless it is just not good beer due to being overly sweet.

Of course 1 day after I type the quote above I take a gravity reading of my latest IPA that has been in the fermentation cabinet since the wee early hours of October 29th and it is at 1.015. This was a dramatically different extract recipe from my previous IPA batches though. This one was set up to be similar to a Sculpin or a lighter (color and body) and much more complexly hopped beer. Tastes AMAZING straight from the hydrometer tube!

I would say that FG depends quite a lot on the recipe as well as the health and varility of the yeast used to ferment it. I used the same yeasties (White Labs California Ale Yeast) as I did the previous batches. Also made a starter with this one as well as the previous batch that ended at 1.020.

 

[Bullshivit-brew]

I will say I did not use a starter. I will be next time.

 

[oldschool]

Ugh. You won't catch me putting any corn or cane sugar in any of my IIPAs. I guess it is a matter of taste, though.

Corn sugar (dextrose) typically is preferred over cane sugar (sucrose) because it is more fermentable and because sucrose can leave a cidery off flavor in your final beer. As the others have said, with only a single pound in an IIPA, you should not be able to tell any difference.

However, I am more concerned that you may have a different problem with a different solution. What is your OG, what yeast are you using, and what do you do to ferment the beer? What is your recipe?

If your OG is something like 1.090 or above, you probably are fully attenuated and may be able to simply adjust your IBUs to a better balance. If you are using a yeast that is not among the most attenuative or alcohol tolerant, you just may be able to switch that out. If you ferment in less than optimal conditions, you may be able to fix that. If you use a bunch of crystal or other unfermentables (on top of an extract that may already contain the same thing), you may be able to fix that.

I wouldn't just jump for the sugar before you examine the rest of your process and, maybe, learn something that could improve all your beers.


TL

I'm mostly going to have to agree with this. There are many pros that never use sugar. As someone else also said you should use a higher attenuating yeast and try pitching more. I've had many extract beers that used a considerable ammount of corn sugar and you could taste the cider coming out for sure. Personally, I like a very rich IIPA and would rather increase my hops to balance the sweetness.

 

[moti_mo]

I'm mostly going to have to agree with this. There are many pros that never use sugar. As someone else also said you should use a higher attenuating yeast and try pitching more. I've had many extract beers that used a considerable ammount of corn sugar and you could taste the cider coming out for sure. Personally, I like a very rich IIPA and would rather increase my hops to balance the sweetness.

I'm not saying using corn or sucrose sugar is the only option, but it is a valid option that I think often gets discounted because people have a misconception about sugar giving beer a cidery taste. You say you've had extract beers that used corn sugar that had a cider taste coming through - I've had plenty of extract beers that didn't use corn sugar that suffered from the same problem.

There are many variables that affect the final beer's flavor, as we all know, many that are validly being discussed in this thread. Without knowing the process of the extract brewer from whom you tasted the beer that had the cider off flavors, its impossible to know if the off flavor comes from the use of a simple sugar. And assuming that the sugar is the culprit is probably the number one way misconceptions or stereotypes are perpetuated.

I'm just saying from someone who has tasted beers side-by-side by the same brewer (me) where one used a simple sugar (correctly) and one did not, the ones with sugar usually taste just as good as the ones without, and can taste better because it dries the beer out a bit, avoiding unwanted residual sweetness. And again, if used correctly, the sugar gives NO CIDER off flavors.

The other variables people are discussing - using a starter, making sure you use a yeast with the proper attenuation profile you're looking for, fermentation temperature control, etc. - these are all completely valid and very important factors that should NEVER be overlooked if you're trying to trouble-shoot your process. I just want to make sure people don't knock the use of simple sugars as a fraction of the fermentables bill as invalid because people throw around the common belief/fear of the cider-flavors...

 

[oldschool]

The cider flavored beers that i had used, i think 1 cup per gallon. At least that's what they told me. I know other people that use them incorrectly and the beers kinda suck. I'm mostly wanting to avoid this out of the pride thing of using only malt. school

 

[moti_mo]

The cider flavored beers that i had used, i think 1 cup per gallon. At least that's what they told me. I know other people that use them incorrectly and the beers kinda suck. I'm mostly wanting to avoid this out of the pride thing of using only malt. school

Fair enough if you want to stick to the Reinheitsgebot principles - but for me, learning to do it correctly just means increasing your arsenal of techniques to make quality beer of many different varieties.

I used to swear to never use any crazy adjuncts like fruit or ginger or pepper or other spices or anything like that because of pride (that's not beer, right), but then I realized it just gives you the opportunity to get creative and make things you've never had before. But if you want to keep it to just the barley, hops, and water, there's nothing wrong with that either.