IPA Recipe - Hop Bill Look OK?

[mrgrimm101]

So about this time last year I brewed a Galaxy/Warrior hopped IPA just to do a test to see what Galaxy had to offer and it was really really good. I wanted to brew it again, but I wanted to add some different hops to it.

Recipe WAS as follows:
OG: 1.069
7.5 lb Light DME
0.5 lb Crystal 40L
1 oz Warrior (60 min)
1 oz Galaxy (15 min)
1 oz Galaxy (5 min)
1 oz Galaxy (0 min)
3 oz Galaxy (Dry Hop)

It turned out great.. lots of tropical fruit and citrus notes.

I love big, hoppy IPAs and I wanted to adjust the recipe so that in addition to the Galaxy, it would have more resiny/dank hops notes as well. I decided to add some Columbus and some Warrior later in the boil to achieve the dank/resiny flavors and aromas.

My grain bill will probably stay the same (I might add some munich for more sweetness?) I didn't change the amount of Galaxy, I just added the other hops.

New Hop Bill:
1 oz Warrior (60 min)
1 oz Galaxy (15 min)
0.5 oz Columbus (10 min)
0.5 oz Warrior (10 min)
1 oz Galaxy (5 min)
0.5 oz Columbus (0 min)
0.5 oz Warrior (0 min)
1 oz Galaxy (0 min)
1 oz Columbus (Dry Hop)
1 oz Warrior (Dry Hop)
1 oz Galaxy (Dry Hop)

Looking at it, I feel like it might be too much, but then again I love big hoppy beers. Should I scale down any of the Galaxy to accommodate for the additions of Columbus or Warrior? Are there any other hops that I should consider for a dank/resiny flavors and aromas?

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[unionrdr]

I'd move the 0 minute additions to 10-12 minutes or so myself. Zero minute additions are for aroma, which dry hopping does in IPA's.

 

[mrgrimm101]

I'd move the 0 minute additions to 10-12 minutes or so myself. Zero minute additions are for aroma, which dry hopping does in IPA's.

I had some 10 minute additions of the Warrior and Columbus.
Like this?

New Hop Bill:
1 oz Warrior (60 min)
1 oz Galaxy (15 min)
1 oz Columbus (10 min)
1 oz Warrior (10 min)
1 oz Galaxy (5 min)
1 oz Galaxy (0 min)
1 oz Columbus (Dry Hop)
1 oz Warrior (Dry Hop)
1 oz Galaxy (Dry Hop)

Or would it be beneficial to do 0.5 of Columbus and Warrior at 15 minutes and another half oz of each at 10 minute?

Are full ounces of each too much?

 

[unionrdr]

No, an ounce of each is OK to get that big hop flavor. I just don't bother with zro minute additions since I'm dry hopping for aroma anyway. Saves hops for flavor &/or dry hopping. Changing those two to 15 minute additions would give more edge to the flavor imo.

 

[mrgrimm101]

No, an ounce of each is OK to get that big hop flavor. I just don't bother with zro minute additions since I'm dry hopping for aroma anyway. Saves hops for flavor &/or dry hopping. Changing those two to 15 minute additions would give more edge to the flavor imo.

Ok great I think I will adjust to this:

New Hop Bill:
1 oz Warrior (60 min)
1 oz Galaxy (15 min)
0.5 oz Columbus (15 min)
0.5 oz Warrior (15 min)
0.5 oz Columbus (10 min)
0.5 Warrior (10 min)
1 oz Galaxy (5 min)
1 oz Galaxy (0 min)
1 oz Columbus (Dry Hop)
1 oz Warrior (Dry Hop)
1 oz Galaxy (Dry Hop)

I used all Galaxy before for dry hopping and it was really great, but I thought that splitting it between the 3 hops would give really nice fruity, citrus, herbal, and pungent aromas.

 

[Queequeg]

No, an ounce of each is OK to get that big hop flavor. I just don't bother with zro minute additions since I'm dry hopping for aroma anyway. Saves hops for flavor &/or dry hopping. Changing those two to 15 minute additions would give more edge to the flavor imo.

I take this to mean you don't agree with hopstands? I remember reading a while back an article from BYO which detailed some test tasts done with dry hopping only verse hopstand an dry hop. I can't remember the results of the taste but thought the general concenus is to hopstand an equal weight to dry hop for a really big IPA aroma.


As for the recipe, coloumbus won't be my first choice with Galaxy, my mind jumps straight to Amarrillo for a clean fruity addition or Citra for a dank edge. Columbus is excellent early in the boil though, a long lasting plesant bitterness. Also warrior is quite mild aroma and will imo be overpowered by the other hops, I would use that for bittering.

As for the quantity of hops your safe, dry hop could be bigger but your'll see diminished returns as you approach or exceed 5 oz.

 

[mrgrimm101]

Yea I was going for dank/resiny/pungent hops to go with the fruity of the Galaxy. I use Warrior to bitter and was reading that it gives a mild resiny flavor so thats why I added it later in the boil as well.

Im not necessarily looking for clean fruity..the Galaxy has enough of that without adding any Amarillo.

Ive always found Columbus to be dank and herbal thats why I added it. Citra is an interesting thought though.

 

[Queequeg]

IMO citra will keep the citrus fruit taste high whilst adding plenty of dank.

Columbus is good too, you get plenty of grapefruit from that but not as much a citra. If you used Citra I would use it sparingly with the galaxy as it can have a tendancy to over power everything.

I find columbus is good around the 20-30 min mark, especially for the dank flavours.

IMO warrior has a very mild minty herbal flavour/aroma, a bit like williamette

 

[mrgrimm101]

Gotcha. I dont want the citra to overpower..i like the galaxy a lot. I just wanted some dankness there too. Maybe ill get rid of the late Warrior additions, move the 1 oz of columbus back to about 20 min and do some citra later at about 10 min

 

[mrgrimm101]

I wanted that resiny, sticky, thick mouth feel

 

[Queequeg]

I would definately drop the warrior from late in the boil and just use at the 60min mark only.

Columbus at the 20min mark sounds good to me, if you use citra is up to you. You wan't have that dank flavour by dry hopping with citra though, you need to put that in the boil for that.

Mouthfeel is going to be more dependant on your malt bill.

 

[mrgrimm101]

I know that the malt will add to mouth feel, but I've had some sticky, resiny IPAs that give a sticky mouthfeel too.

 

[Queequeg]

If you want that emphasis that resiny quality then I would not bitter with Warrior which is clean, bot Citra and Columbus are better at providing that quality. Though of the too I think columbus is more pleasant to bitter with, but that all comes down to personal taste.

 

[mrgrimm101]

Great advice, thank you.

How about something like this:

New Hop Bill:
1 oz Columbus (60 min)
1 oz Columbus (20 min)
1 oz Galaxy (15 min)
1 oz Citra (10 min)
1 oz Galaxy (5 min)
1 oz Galaxy (0 min)
1 oz Columbus (Dry Hop)
1 oz Citra (Dry Hop)
1 oz Galaxy (Dry Hop)

This puts it at just under 100 IBU. Wooooo.

Does the citra placement look good, or should I move it back to about 15-20?

 

[Queequeg]

I would lower the ibu's. Depending on the style you want somewhere BTW GU/IBU ratio of 0.6 for an east coast style and 1.0 for a west coast style. For a west coast with an SG of 1.060 your looking at about 70IBU's. I would adjust the 60 min addition towards 0.5oz. Citra at 10min looks good. You could do one at 5 as well and do 0,5oz each.

If you do 0 min addition do a hop stand.

 

[mrgrimm101]

I was actually thinking about increasing the DME to 8 lb and still keeping the 0.5 lb of Crystal 40L, so my OG will be about 1.074 with an ABV of about 7.3% My thought was that the extra sweetness from the malt would balance more with the increase of hops from the original recipe.

Assuming I don't alter the grain bill:
Should I drop the 60 min Columbus down to 0.5 oz or should I drop the 20 min Columbus down to 0.5?

Dropping the 60 min addition down gives an IBU of about 74
Dropping the 20 min addition down gives an IBU of about 82

Either way I might toss in the other 0.5 oz later in the boil.

I can move the Citra so instead of 1 oz at 10 minutes, it will be 0.5 oz at 10 min and 0.5 at 5 min.

 

[Queequeg]

I would drop the 60 min addition to 0.5 oz. Normally recipe formulation you work out bittering addition last to get the number of IBU you want.

I personally find if an IPA is too big you can lose a lot of the hop aroma before it finished conditioning. I prefer to make them on the smaller side so they are ready to drink sooner whilst the hops are still at their best.

Also I looked up the total oil content of galaxy and citra and they are of similar potency, meaning you could use them in a 1:1 ratio. If one hop is too prominent for your liking you can alter the recipe from there.

Here is the sort of hop bill I would go for.

60 min Columbus (quantity based on AAU's to make up to 60 IBU's)
20 min Columbus x 1oz
15min Citra x0.5oz
15min Citra x0.5oz
10 min Citra x 0.5oz
10min Galaxy 0.5oz
5min Citra 0.5 oz
5min Galaxy 0.5 oz

Hopstand 60mins @80C

2 oz Citra
2 oz galaxy

Dry Hop

2oz Citra
2oz Galaxy

This hop bill is basically a hopbursted IPA with the IBU adjusted by a small bitterness addition. You should get plenty of resins and dank from the 20min columbus and 15min Citra, and loads of citrus and tropical fruits in flavour and aroma.

For the malt bill I would go.

6.6lbs of extra light malt extract (dry)
0.35lbs of crystal 20L
0.25 lbs corn sugar

The corn sugar with bring the FG down to 1.013, you don't need much crystal.

You need about 60 IBUs to get a west coast style IPA, so adjust the 60 min Columbus accordingly.

For yeast I would use US-05, perhaps 3 packs because dry yield is actually only around 8 billion as opposed to the 20 billion on the label.

You can also optionally add 1oz of Columbus to the dry hop, as its pretty dam fine dryhopping hop. But potent when dry hopping.

 

[cantrell00]

I take this to mean you don't agree with hopstands? I remember reading a while back an article from BYO which detailed some test tasts done with dry hopping only verse hopstand an dry hop. I can't remember the results of the taste but thought the general concenus is to hopstand an equal weight to dry hop for a really big IPA aroma.

I just did an IPA that consisted of a FWH & then everything else was post boil. A flame out addition totaling 4.5 ounces for 30 minutes & then immediately following, another 4.5 ounce whirlpool addition for another 30 minutes. Followed by a dry hop for 7 days.

It is the most flavorful IPA I have ever brewed.

The 15, 10, 5 minute "flavor" additions are not needed in my experience. Push them all to flame out/whirlpool & double the amount.

I will do all of mine that way from now on.. Big eye opener for me..

 

[mrgrimm101]

3 packets of yeast? Ive never needed more than 1 for an IPA of this gravity..

 

[mrgrimm101]

I want the IBUs up around 70. Doing it the following way puts it at about 73 IBU, which is spot on for what I'm looking for.

0.5 oz Columbus (60 min)
1 oz Columbus (20 min)
0.5 oz Galaxy (15 min)
0.5 oz Citra (15 min)
0.5 oz Galaxy (10 min)
0.5 oz Citra (10 min)
0.5 oz Galaxy (5 min)
0.5 oz Citra (5 min)
1 oz Galaxy (flameout)
1 oz Citra (flameout)
2 oz Galaxy (dry hop)
1 oz Citra (dry hop)
1 oz Columbus (dry hop)

I am concerned that the extra dextrose would dry it out a bit too much for my liking.

I might back down a bit of the Citra just because I want the Galaxy to pop a bit more.

 

[robotinc]

I would use a yeast calculator, and properly rehydrate if using dry yeast. I've never had viability issues when using the stated yeast count

 

[mrgrimm101]

Yea I always rehydrate when using dry. I am just getting into creating starters so thats an optiom as well

 

[Tutsbrew]

A change of .25 oz here, five minutes later or two minutes sooner, .5 oz there... Most ANYTHING remotely close to the original hops schedule or even a bit different will not be noticed by most peeps. Although on paper, er, on screen, it looks quite bitter indeed. Should be what IPA types like...

 

[Queequeg]

Regarding the yeast

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

if you look at viable cells at packing.

6 x 109 /g.(billion)

11g *6 Billion

66 billion

230 billion cells required for a 1.060 19 Litre batch (based on 0.75 milllion cells/ml/plato)

230/66 = 3.48

That considered you are not going to get 100% viability even when hydrating.

A study done in 2003, showed that the most you typically get from a dry packet is about 14 billion per gram.

14 *11= 154g

230/154 = 1.5

so even by those estimates you are looking at a minimum of 1.5 packs.

 

[Queequeg]

I just did an IPA that consisted of a FWH & then everything else was post boil. A flame out addition totaling 4.5 ounces for 30 minutes & then immediately following, another 4.5 ounce whirlpool addition for another 30 minutes. Followed by a dry hop for 7 days.

It is the most flavorful IPA I have ever brewed.

The 15, 10, 5 minute "flavor" additions are not needed in my experience. Push them all to flame out/whirlpool & double the amount.

I will do all of mine that way from now on.. Big eye opener for me..

I'm definitely going to try this. My only concern is that after about 5 oz aroma additions you reach the ceiling of post boil extraction.

Also you get different oxidative compounds from the hops when boiling, plus different AA profiles adding to increased bittering complexity. Like resinious flavours for example.

 

[Queequeg]

A change of .25 oz here, five minutes later or two minutes sooner, .5 oz there... Most ANYTHING remotely close to the original hops schedule or even a bit different will not be noticed by most peeps. Although on paper, er, on screen, it looks quite bitter indeed. Should be what IPA types like...

agreed that why I suggested splitting the additions equally. You could quite easily just do 10 and 5 mins or 15 and 5.

 

[Queequeg]

I want the IBUs up around 70. Doing it the following way puts it at about 73 IBU, which is spot on for what I'm looking for.

0.5 oz Columbus (60 min)
1 oz Columbus (20 min)
0.5 oz Galaxy (15 min)
0.5 oz Citra (15 min)
0.5 oz Galaxy (10 min)
0.5 oz Citra (10 min)
0.5 oz Galaxy (5 min)
0.5 oz Citra (5 min)
1 oz Galaxy (flameout)
1 oz Citra (flameout)
2 oz Galaxy (dry hop)
1 oz Citra (dry hop)
1 oz Columbus (dry hop)

I am concerned that the extra dextrose would dry it out a bit too much for my liking.

I might back down a bit of the Citra just because I want the Galaxy to pop a bit more.

Ok, Citra is a strong hop. Personally I like a dry IPA, there are too many examples of bad sweet ones. I wouldn't stray much above 1.014 FG.

 

[cantrell00]

I'm definitely going to try this. My only concern is that after about 5 oz aroma additions you reach the ceiling of post boil extraction.

Also you get different oxidative compounds from the hops when boiling, plus different AA profiles adding to increased bittering complexity. Like resinious flavours for example.

You know about hop anatomy better than I. For sure...

Just so you know ... The flame out was 1.50 oz of chinook, centennial & cascade & the whirlpool was 1.5 oz of ahtanum, cascade & amarillo.

3 oz Simcoe dry hop..

Probably a lot of redundancy of these hops in the additions. Could have left some out I'm sure..

 

[Queequeg]

^^ well that what I have read and when I have hopbursted you definitely get a different character than just doing late additions.

one thing I have done is dropped flameout for hopstanding. I drop the boil to 80C with my plate chiller than than add all the 0 min additions.

 

[cantrell00]

^^ well that what I have read and when I have hopbursted you definitely get a different character than just doing late additions.

one thing I have done is dropped flameout for hopstanding. I drop the boil to 80C with my plate chiller than than add all the 0 min additions.

I am doing that with the next IPA @ 175 degrees...