mclamb6
Well-Known Member
No acid, but yes on gypsum.
IPA clarity issues...
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No acid, but yes on gypsum.
mclamb6
Well-Known Member
Ground water is pushing 90 degrees in the summer here.
Why would the chilling time only effect my dry hopped beers?
BreezyBrew
IPA is my spirit animal
Oh man. I just brewed a double IPA that looks just like your cloudy beer. I used a similar water profile.
2drunk2
Well-Known Member
I'm baffled.
BreezyBrew
IPA is my spirit animal
How long has it sat at fridge temps?
mclamb6
Well-Known Member
It hasn't yet. I typically dry hop warm, then cold crash.
Dry hopping is going to introduce new material that will suspend in the beer, even if you have it crystal clear before dry hopping. I think that is a separate issue from the speed of the chilling and quality of the cold break. For a truly clear beer, both need to be successful. I would think that if you had a solid cold break, got the beer very clear by a long cold crash following a period in a secondary...it would be interesting to dry hop following that point.
It's pH. Hang out in the brew science area and check out the stickies. Chances are all you guys need are a few ml of acid and your will beer will never be better. DL and learn a water spreadsheet, get some acid and an oral syringe. Thank me later.
House IPA 12oz hops 5.5G: 4oz @15m, 4oz 30m hopstand, 4oz dryhop, 2 weeks:
House IPA 12oz hops 5.5G: 4oz @15m, 4oz 30m hopstand, 4oz dryhop, 2 weeks:
Chris7687
Well-Known Member
Actual acid (Lactic I'm assuming)? Or Acidulated malt?
Edit: Excellent looking IPA by the way!
Use what you want. Others think I am nuts but I HATE lactic acid. Acid malt is fine though. That said, I use phosphoric acid for my ales and acid malt in my lagers. Off the top of my head, 6G IPA takes about 3ml for my tap water with 90ppm alkalinity. That includes acidifying sparge water.
Thanks for the kind words. I kegged a saison 2 weeks ago and it is brilliantly clear like BMC. 2 week fermentation, 1 week cold crash.
Thanks for the kind words. I kegged a saison 2 weeks ago and it is brilliantly clear like BMC. 2 week fermentation, 1 week cold crash.
Curious if you made any progress on your IPA clarity issues, any chance you could give us an update?
I've made three hoppy batches since last posting, where I thought my problem was probably hops in the fermenter, or maybe water additions (specifically epsom salt).
First I made a late hopped honey ale, filtered all the hops and left out the epsom salt. Gelatin'ed it like I do all my beers. Came out crystal clear, tasted great.
Next I made an IPA. On this one I used the same water profile as my previously pictured murky beer with epsom, only this time I filtered out about 75% of the pellet hops. I meant to filter more, but thats what happened. Came out slightly murky, although a little clearer than my previous IPAs. I wasn't impressed with the flavor though, it's like the same thing is off about it as is in my other IPAs.
Lastly I attempted a two heated clone. I used Wyeast American Ale II yeast on this one, used whole hops so I could filter them all out, and did not use epsom salt. Its been on tap cold for only two days and its already crystal clear and tastes clean, though not identical to two heated.
From these and my previous batches, I'm somewhat convinced that filtering out the hops is mandatory for getting a clear beer. I'm still a little fuzzy on epsom salt, but I've pretty much determined I'm never going to use it again. I mean, epsom is a standard brewing salt right? I can't image its ruining my beers if other people can use it without issue. Oh well, no point in risking it anymore I suppose.
I've made three hoppy batches since last posting, where I thought my problem was probably hops in the fermenter, or maybe water additions (specifically epsom salt).
First I made a late hopped honey ale, filtered all the hops and left out the epsom salt. Gelatin'ed it like I do all my beers. Came out crystal clear, tasted great.
Next I made an IPA. On this one I used the same water profile as my previously pictured murky beer with epsom, only this time I filtered out about 75% of the pellet hops. I meant to filter more, but thats what happened. Came out slightly murky, although a little clearer than my previous IPAs. I wasn't impressed with the flavor though, it's like the same thing is off about it as is in my other IPAs.
Lastly I attempted a two heated clone. I used Wyeast American Ale II yeast on this one, used whole hops so I could filter them all out, and did not use epsom salt. Its been on tap cold for only two days and its already crystal clear and tastes clean, though not identical to two heated.
From these and my previous batches, I'm somewhat convinced that filtering out the hops is mandatory for getting a clear beer. I'm still a little fuzzy on epsom salt, but I've pretty much determined I'm never going to use it again. I mean, epsom is a standard brewing salt right? I can't image its ruining my beers if other people can use it without issue. Oh well, no point in risking it anymore I suppose.
Hope the OP made progress. I don't think filtering makes much difference. I don't bother to filter out hops or break and just get it into the carboy and ferment away. It all ends up clear without the need to use gelatine.
Fost, any chance you using Conan for the IPA? Many report it is highly non-flocculant and have not figured out to clear it up.
Fost, any chance you using Conan for the IPA? Many report it is highly non-flocculant and have not figured out to clear it up.
OK rule that out. Plan to keg a US05 IPA tonight. First time I used dry yeast in forever but used chico a long time and it drops clear.
Can you vouch for the RO? Your system or store water? I had a buddy send his store bought RO water to Ward Labs and it came back worse than his tap water.
Can you vouch for the RO? Your system or store water? I had a buddy send his store bought RO water to Ward Labs and it came back worse than his tap water.
Can definitely vouch for my RO, had it tested from ward labs in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ward-labs-results-socal-ro-water-493068/
Yep, I'm pretty obsessive about every step of my brewing, so its pretty frustrating to say the least.
For salt additions and pH adjustment I use bruin water.
For all these beers I start with 5 gallons of RO water with salts, then sparge with however much more water I need to make my preboil volume.
For the cloudy IPAs I've used this water profile
Mash additions: 6g Gypsum, .5g Calcium Chloride, 3g Epsom salt
Sparge additons: 4g Gypsum, .3g CaCl2, 2g Epsom
giving me a water profile of: Ca 79 Mg 15 Na 0 Cl 13 SO4 239
plus the negligible amount in my RO water.
for the latest beer thats crystal clear, I used
Mash: 3g CaCl2, 3g Gypsum
Sparge: 2g CaCl2, 2g Gypsum
giving me: Ca 3 Mg 15 Na 0 Cl 13 SO4 150
I think both profiles should be fine for an IPA theoretically and shouldn't be the cloudyness cause
For pH I use bruinwater to estimate the amount of acid (phosphoric) I need to get a pH of about 5.35. I then check with my pH meter and confirm, and I'm always pretty close.
So yeah I think I'm doing all that correct. So Zwiller, you're saying your beers are clear even after dumping the hops in the fermenter... can you confirm that you are doing this with pellet hops? Because if that is true then things are even more confusing.
I've done a few split batches where one half is fairly clear and the other gets most of the trub. The fermenter with the trub is almost always clearer, and often with a crisper and cleaner taste IMHO. I did this last with a hoppy American wheat beer, and the difference was huge. The sludgy batch settled out crystal clear, while the other was hazy and with a muddled flavor.
I have seen a few other posts about the benefits of trub in the fermenter, but maybe try a split batch and compare? 1/2 filtered and 1/2 trubtastic
I have seen a few other posts about the benefits of trub in the fermenter, but maybe try a split batch and compare? 1/2 filtered and 1/2 trubtastic
That's interesting about the trub.
I wonder thefost, how long the dry hops sit and at what temperature? how much hops and what variety? I can't imagine even needing to filter and throw loose pellets right in the fermenter.
I wonder thefost, how long the dry hops sit and at what temperature? how much hops and what variety? I can't imagine even needing to filter and throw loose pellets right in the fermenter.
Yes, I chill and dump EVERYTHING in the fermenter. Last IPA was 12oz hops. I scale up to 6G and lose nearly 1G to losses. I won't say that it tastes better per se, just that it does not negatively affect the beer. I am anal too about brewing but happy to cut corners when I can... I have done it this way like 10 years. That said, I do rack off for delicate lagers. I had a long day but I will snap a pic of the IPA I kegged last night. Racking hose was absolutely clear. Something 1 week ferment and 10 days cold crash. Might have a bit of haze from slight yeast pickup during racking tho.
You take any other pH readings? Preboil, post, final? I use BNW too and tested it extensively and have decided to forgo a 4th meter. BUT, when I was using one I got some typical readings for my IPA. I was around 5.4 preboil, 5.2 post, and 4.5 finished. Although I don't personally think it should affect clarity, but I add "sparge salts" to kettle, and I think Martin advocates this as well. I am wondering if the epsom salts in the sparge is doing something? I understand adding the trace minerals as you are building your water however.
You take any other pH readings? Preboil, post, final? I use BNW too and tested it extensively and have decided to forgo a 4th meter. BUT, when I was using one I got some typical readings for my IPA. I was around 5.4 preboil, 5.2 post, and 4.5 finished. Although I don't personally think it should affect clarity, but I add "sparge salts" to kettle, and I think Martin advocates this as well. I am wondering if the epsom salts in the sparge is doing something? I understand adding the trace minerals as you are building your water however.
hbhudy
Well-Known Member
For my hops I use a pain strainer in the kettle for the hops, and another one in the funnel when transferring into the PET carboy(s). It does not catch everything, but does get enough to make me "feel" better.
Varies a lot on the dry hops, depends on the recipe. Usually go for 1 to 5oz per 5 gal batch. I seem to like dry hops at around 65 degrees for 7 days best, but I've also experimented with hops in the serving keg with sometimes good results, though it takes much longer.
campbellmike
Well-Known Member
I've had very similar results to the OP. All my beers have cleared up nicely except the recent Zombie Dust Clone. I've done drop hops in most and this one just won't clear. The wort was clear and clearer after secondary than it is in the keg. ????
I don't care much because it tastes great but it's a mystery.
I don't care much because it tastes great but it's a mystery.
black_belt
Active Member
some other random guesses here:
Does it taste yeasty? pH, salts, oils, temperature and many other factors can affect how yeast flocculate. Given that other beers don't experience this, only dry hopped ones, I wonder if the hop oils change how the yeast flocculate and sediment. This would be balanced by adjusting other factors, but may require some trial and error.
If not yeasty, it may be hop oils that form some sort of emulsion.
Does it taste yeasty? pH, salts, oils, temperature and many other factors can affect how yeast flocculate. Given that other beers don't experience this, only dry hopped ones, I wonder if the hop oils change how the yeast flocculate and sediment. This would be balanced by adjusting other factors, but may require some trial and error.
If not yeasty, it may be hop oils that form some sort of emulsion.
