Invert Sugar Syrup Substitution

[marzipan71]

Hi - I've got a recipe for an English mild that calls for 0.4 lb of invert sugar syrup #3. My various internet searches suggest this is (was) a fairly dark syrup with a vague flavour of molasses. I'm substituting muscovado sugar, which has a mild molasses flavor and might do the job well.

My question is this - since I imagine invert sugar syrup is a concentrated form of fermentable sugar, is there a back of the envelope way of calculating an equivalent weight in my muscovado sugar replacement? I realize sugars is a huge topic, but I'm just looking to see if there's anything out there that suggests say, use x2 sugar to suggested weight of invert sugar syrup. Or is that just not a sensible question?

My other idea was to use a certain amount of muscovado and a small amount of molasses...but that will probably get even more confusing.

Anyhow, any ideas or reported experiences would be welcome!

 

[DavidJP]

How about using Lyles black treacle, check out any British import shop should carry it. I think that's pretty close to an invert 3

 

[Facinerous]

I wouldn't recommend using any more molasses as that muscovado sugar seems to already have a high amount in it.

As far as I know invert sugar has a small amount of water left in it which leaves it in a syrup form. So if you add your muscovado sugar at the same weight quantity you should get a very similar result. (though probably a different flavor overall)

Realize that I am relying on you to have done your own research on the similarities of that particular kind of invert syrup. My answer is only related to the quantity and my personal opinion that it wouldn't be wise to add more molasses than your muscovado sugar already had.

 

[marzipan71]

Thanks folks. Treacle suggestion is a good one for the future for sue - I'm just in the middle of sparging so having to make do with my muscovado for now. I'll use the equivalent weight amount as suggested for the invert sugar syrup - thanks Facinerous. Cheers!

 

[JKaranka]

Are you inverting it? I think it will not be as dark as invert #3, which is inverted and caramelized for over an hour. You can also search for the faster blackstrap & invert method, but that still requires some invert. You could also use dark candi syrup.

 

[gbx]

Are you inverting it? I think it will not be as dark as invert #3, which is inverted and caramelized for over an hour. You can also search for the faster blackstrap & invert method, but that still requires some invert. You could also use dark candi syrup.

here http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert

It doesn't take too long to do a quick inversion and then pad it out with blackstrap as per the calculator. Or if you are really lazy, just throw the raw sugar and appropriate molasses in the wort at the start of the boil. It won't be exactly the same but won't be too different from the first method.

 

[JKaranka]

I hope you've not done this yet. If you have a proper mild recipe the invert #3 and #4 are key additions. The muscovado without inverting to #3 is barely going to give you colour, it's also going to have more of an alcohol bite and none of the toffee and dark fruit flavours of #3. Kirsten England has a blackstrap method to approximate inverts that you can try. Still, muscovado on its own I think will end up more like #1.

 

[JKaranka]

Thanks, gbx. On mobile here so bit limited.

 

[Hanglow]

You could just not include it in the boil, make a proper syrup then add it after a day or two once fermentation has kicked in

 

[gbx]

You could just not include it in the boil, make a proper syrup then add it after a day or two once fermentation has kicked in

Any time I've made invert its been really really thick and hard to dissolve. I usually have to heat it to get it too pour well and then fill the jar up with boiling wort and swish it around. I couldn't imagine doing it at room temp in a sanitary way. Also, it will gain colour when added to the start of a boil which you won't get by adding to the fermenter.

 

[Hanglow]

At the end of making the invert you can add about 20% of the weight of it in water to get a syrup that will run and dissolve easily enough at room temp. Then when you want to use it, just heat up what you want in a pan to boiling to pasteurise it again, cover it and cool it then pour it into the fermentor. I always make a big batch and although I do tend to just add it in the boil, I have added it to the fermentor after a couple of days in some 9% beers to give the yeast a head start

I imagine he's brewed it now so it's moot anyway

 

[JKaranka]

Probably, but it's still one of the best threads about invert sugar in here...

 

[marzipan71]

Hi Folks, So an update on this one. I ending up making two 5 gallon batches using the same recipe but varying the sugar. First batch used 0.5lb of musovado sugar, second batch used a product I found at my LHBS called 'Cascade Beer Candi Syrup - Dark', which is basically made of cane sugar, date sugar, and molasses (see pic).

I was going to use 0.5lb of the syrup also but ended up dumping in the whole tub, which is 1lb. Most instructions suggest adding this brand of candi syrup to the boil for the last 15 minutes, but I added it at the start of the 90m boil as I thought it might give it a chance to caramelize. Other than the sugars, both batches were made identically.

So interesting thing was there was really little difference in color when all was said and done, as you can see in the pic with the two side by side - left is the muscovado sugar, right is the dark candi syrup. I really thought the candi syrup would make things much darker, but it seems not. In a few weeks I'll get to try them both and it will be interesting to see what effect the different sugars had on flavor.

Thanks for all your responses as ever!