Making #2 or #3 invert sugar

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trailrider

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I have a couple of cans of Lyle’s Golden syrup and wonder if it can be reheated to create a #2 or #3 invert. Most of the English beers I brew are Pale or Golden ales but I’ve got a recipe or two that called for #2 invert. I’ve used Turbinado as a substitute but want to try actual invert sugar. My search for an answer found some references to a web site named “unholymess.com” but I’ve been unable to connect to it. I’m hopeful someone has tried this or can come up with a reference that answers the question.
 
Super easy.

1 pint water
1lb sugar (turbinado is great)
1/4tsp citric acid (or appropriate amount of alternative)

20210608_094748.jpg


Bring water to boil
Stir in sugar & acid

20210608_095239.jpg


Bring to 240°F

20210608_133320.jpg


Place in 240°F oven
Cook until desired color is reached
When putting it in the oven, you can pour it into heated mason jars.

20210608_134123.jpg


All of the water boils off, so 1lb sugar makes 1lb invert. IIRC, a pint mason jar will take 1/2lb invert.

Edit: a pint is ~1lb
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply DBhomebrew. I've made invert sugar in the past but only on top of the stove. Just using the oven may be the answer to my question about turning lyle's Golden syrup into a darker #2 or #3 invert.
 
Found this online, I think it maybe what you originally searched for, unholymess.com

That's the recipe for an invert substitute, sort of. The recipe process I posted is the actual invert. Both were on the unholymess page.

ETA: I see. OP might indeed want the syrup/molasses substitute.
 
Here is the information directly from unholymess.com, developed by Kristen England who worked extensively with Ron Pattinson @patto1ro on recreating historic British recipes, that I copied and saved years ago in the event that the website ever disappeared (and I am glad I did so)!

Making Brewers Invert

Liquid Brewers Invert Sugars, the stuff legends and authentic British beers are made out of.

Why should you take the time to do this the Right Way ™?

  • No, cane sugar isn’t the same. Shup.
  • No, that rock @#$@# and candi (seriously with an “i”… you mean like strippers?) isn’t the same.
  • Jesus… I quote multiple homebrewing forum expertshere: “You aren’t going to see any difference in taste.” and then “it adds nothing to a beer that plain cane sugar doesn’t.”
    • HORSE ****. There just happens to be an entire industry and 100+ years of brewing history because it is a fancy way to get sugar into a beer? Again, HORSE. ****.
  • If you need more convincing, read the great articles on Barclay Perkins
Ingredients:

  • Sugar in the Raw or other demerara cane suger
  • 1lb sugar to 1pt of h20
  • 1 tsp (5ml) liquid Lactic Acid @ 88% per 2.5lbs of sugar.
  • 1/2 cup (4 fl oz) light corn sugar per 2.5lbs. (helps prevent crystals)
Process:

  • Heat h20 to boiling
  • Heat off, slowly add sugar & dissolve – goes quicker than dumping and stirring
  • Add Lactic
  • Put on Medium-high heat, set candy thermometer alarm for 230F
    • reduce for your stove if you are heating more than 3F/minute
  • Stir occasionally until simmering starts.
  • Once @ 230F, set alarm for 240F, slowly reduce heat to keep temp stable
    • easiest is to slowly ramp temp up to 240F. There is so much thermal mass, that once you go over it is very tough to get the temp down.
  • As alarm goes off @ 240F, reduce heat to keep 240F. It is ok to hit 245F, but keep under 250F.
    • low & slow will prevent any burning and associated flavors
When Am I Done?

  • No1: 12-16 SRM, 25-35 EBC
    • minimum 20min @ 240F, but not much longer and don’t want color to darken much. Time is merely to let inversion complete.
  • No2: 30-35 SRM, 60-70 EBC
    • total of 90-120 min @ 240F
  • No3: 60-70 SRM, 120-140 EBC
    • total of 150-210 min @ 240F.

Times for No2/No3 are approximate!! – you want to take periodic color samples @ 10min intervals. Place samples on white porcelain, compare to EBC or SRM charts. Stop 2-3 SRM low, as it will darken a bit as it cools.

OR… The Dilution Method:

There are two ways you can go about this:


  • blending an invert syrup of white sugar and blackstrap. Take the X g of “White Sugar Invert”, make a syrup, then add the Y g of Blackstrap.
  • blending golden syrup and black strap.

Suggestions for brands of blackstrap:


  • Plantation Blackstrap Molasses (US)
  • Golden Barrel Blackstrap (US)
  • ‘Feed grade blackstrap’ (US)
  • Meridian organic blackstrap (UK)

Specific to the feed grade, it is MUCH cheaper than the others in a much higher volume. The lots vary much greater in this one b/c its specifically feed grade however, if you get 2 gal of it for $10, it will last you pretty much forever. It will also last, pretty much forever.


All amounts are in grams, with the total made from each line of 500g.



SyrupEBCWhite Sugar Invert (g)+Blackstrap (g)- OR -Golden Syrup (g)+Blackstrap (g)
Invert No 130495.005.00500.000.00
Invert No 265489.1710.83494.175.83
Invert No 3130478.3321.67483.3316.67
Black Invert350441.6758.33446.6753.33
Invert No 4600400.00100.00405.0095.00
Showing 1 to 5 of 5 entries

Or, for the truly mathtarded, a fancy dilution calculator – also on the Calculators page.





Why the dilution method works well, quoting Kristen England:


  • “A mate of mine and I spent the better part of a month talking to very large producers of invert syrup to get the entire process and their thoughts on making it ourselves. Tons of great information that has solidified what we are doing at BP. Basically, the point was that you need to choose a very high quality blackstrap molasses. One that has a licorice character rather than bitter sugar. Once you choose your blackstrap, stick with the brand. Although there are fluctuations from batch to batch, there are much bigger differences between brands. A very simple blend with simple invert syrup is done on the specification of what number invert you are looking for. Its based on the color of the molasses but according to the invert syrup scientists, high quality blackstrap varies little compared to other molasses as to get the licorice character one needs to have a very similar practice. What we want to be able to do is make a reproducible product ourselves. I made each invert as specified and had them analysed. Invert #1, #2 and #3 were 26, 68 and 124EBC respectively.”
Storing:

  • Once you hit appropriate color, pour into color safe container and chill.
    • Pyrex + lids work well. Store in sanitized airtight container at room temp.
    • It helps to use a container that will sit well in hot water & pour from when it comes time to use it. Bonus points for resealable.
  • If it crystallizes, it didn’t fully invert.
 
Here is the information directly from unholymess.com, developed by Kristen England who worked extensively with Ron Pattinson @patto1ro on recreating historic British recipes, that I copied and saved years ago in the event that the website ever disappeared (and I am glad I did so)!

Making Brewers Invert

Liquid Brewers Invert Sugars, the stuff legends and authentic British beers are made out of.

Why should you take the time to do this the Right Way ™?

  • No, cane sugar isn’t the same. Shup.
  • No, that rock @#$@# and candi (seriously with an “i”… you mean like strippers?) isn’t the same.
  • Jesus… I quote multiple homebrewing forum expertshere: “You aren’t going to see any difference in taste.” and then “it adds nothing to a beer that plain cane sugar doesn’t.”
    • HORSE ****. There just happens to be an entire industry and 100+ years of brewing history because it is a fancy way to get sugar into a beer? Again, HORSE. ****.
  • If you need more convincing, read the great articles on Barclay Perkins
Ingredients:

  • Sugar in the Raw or other demerara cane suger
  • 1lb sugar to 1pt of h20
  • 1 tsp (5ml) liquid Lactic Acid @ 88% per 2.5lbs of sugar.
  • 1/2 cup (4 fl oz) light corn sugar per 2.5lbs. (helps prevent crystals)
Process:

  • Heat h20 to boiling
  • Heat off, slowly add sugar & dissolve – goes quicker than dumping and stirring
  • Add Lactic
  • Put on Medium-high heat, set candy thermometer alarm for 230F
    • reduce for your stove if you are heating more than 3F/minute
  • Stir occasionally until simmering starts.
  • Once @ 230F, set alarm for 240F, slowly reduce heat to keep temp stable
    • easiest is to slowly ramp temp up to 240F. There is so much thermal mass, that once you go over it is very tough to get the temp down.
  • As alarm goes off @ 240F, reduce heat to keep 240F. It is ok to hit 245F, but keep under 250F.
    • low & slow will prevent any burning and associated flavors
When Am I Done?

  • No1: 12-16 SRM, 25-35 EBC
    • minimum 20min @ 240F, but not much longer and don’t want color to darken much. Time is merely to let inversion complete.
  • No2: 30-35 SRM, 60-70 EBC
    • total of 90-120 min @ 240F
  • No3: 60-70 SRM, 120-140 EBC
    • total of 150-210 min @ 240F.

Times for No2/No3 are approximate!! – you want to take periodic color samples @ 10min intervals. Place samples on white porcelain, compare to EBC or SRM charts. Stop 2-3 SRM low, as it will darken a bit as it cools.

OR… The Dilution Method:

There are two ways you can go about this:


  • blending an invert syrup of white sugar and blackstrap. Take the X g of “White Sugar Invert”, make a syrup, then add the Y g of Blackstrap.
  • blending golden syrup and black strap.

Suggestions for brands of blackstrap:


  • Plantation Blackstrap Molasses (US)
  • Golden Barrel Blackstrap (US)
  • ‘Feed grade blackstrap’ (US)
  • Meridian organic blackstrap (UK)

Specific to the feed grade, it is MUCH cheaper than the others in a much higher volume. The lots vary much greater in this one b/c its specifically feed grade however, if you get 2 gal of it for $10, it will last you pretty much forever. It will also last, pretty much forever.


All amounts are in grams, with the total made from each line of 500g.



SyrupEBCWhite Sugar Invert (g)+Blackstrap (g)- OR -Golden Syrup (g)+Blackstrap (g)
Invert No 130495.005.00500.000.00
Invert No 265489.1710.83494.175.83
Invert No 3130478.3321.67483.3316.67
Black Invert350441.6758.33446.6753.33
Invert No 4600400.00100.00405.0095.00
Showing 1 to 5 of 5 entries

Or, for the truly mathtarded, a fancy dilution calculator – also on the Calculators page.





Why the dilution method works well, quoting Kristen England:


  • “A mate of mine and I spent the better part of a month talking to very large producers of invert syrup to get the entire process and their thoughts on making it ourselves. Tons of great information that has solidified what we are doing at BP. Basically, the point was that you need to choose a very high quality blackstrap molasses. One that has a licorice character rather than bitter sugar. Once you choose your blackstrap, stick with the brand. Although there are fluctuations from batch to batch, there are much bigger differences between brands. A very simple blend with simple invert syrup is done on the specification of what number invert you are looking for. Its based on the color of the molasses but according to the invert syrup scientists, high quality blackstrap varies little compared to other molasses as to get the licorice character one needs to have a very similar practice. What we want to be able to do is make a reproducible product ourselves. I made each invert as specified and had them analysed. Invert #1, #2 and #3 were 26, 68 and 124EBC respectively.”
Storing:

  • Once you hit appropriate color, pour into color safe container and chill.
    • Pyrex + lids work well. Store in sanitized airtight container at room temp.
    • It helps to use a container that will sit well in hot water & pour from when it comes time to use it. Bonus points for resealable.
  • If it crystallizes, it didn’t fully invert.

@cyberbackpacker I'm down a rabbit hole on Invert Sugar. This thread is years old now, but this may be of use to someone.

unholymess.com was also archived by the waybackmachine and can be found, along with the calculators and comments, here: https://web.archive.org/web/2020011.../blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert
 
This is from Ron Pattinson's book, The Homebrewers Guide to Vintage Beer. It is the only method I use.
You will need:
- cane Sugar (not table sugar)
- citric Acid
- water
- a candy thermometer
- a saucepan

The colors you are aiming for are:
- No. 1, 12-16 SRM
- No. 2, 30 - 35 SRM
- No. 3, 60 - 70 SRM
- No. 4, 275 - 325 SRM

This is what you do:
- For each pound (455g) of sugar you use, bring 1 pint (473ml) of water to a boil.
- Turn on the heat and add the sugar slowly, dissolving it.
- Add 1/4 teaspoon (1g) of citric acid per pound of sugar.
- Turn on the heat and set the alarm on the candy thermometer to 230°F (110°C).
- Stir frequently while it starts to simmer.
- When the temperature hits 230°F (110°C) reset the alarm for 240°F (115.6°C).
- Heat slowly until the temperature gets to 240°F (115.6°C).
- Lower the heat to keep at 240°F - 250°F (115.6° - 121.1°C).
- For No. 1 maintain the heat for 20 - 30 minutes.
- For No. 2 maintain the heat for 90 - 120 minutes.
- For No. 3 maintain the heat for 150-210 minutes.
- For No. 4 maintain the heat for 240 - 300 minutes.
I have made it with a simple candy thermometer, not one with an alarm, and just kept an eye on it. Most recently I have begun using a dutch oven cooker and just set my oven to 240°F - 250°F (115.6°C - 121.1°C). Making this on a stove top requires constant attention and adjustment of the heat to keep the syrup between those temperatures so the oven method makes things much easier. I have bought commercial invert sugar (Becker's is the only option available in the US) and I like the result I get with my homemade invert 1000% better.
 
This is from Ron Pattinson's book, The Homebrewers Guide to Vintage Beer. It is the only method I use.
You will need:
- cane Sugar (not table sugar)
- citric Acid
- water
- a candy thermometer
- a saucepan

The colors you are aiming for are:
- No. 1, 12-16 SRM
- No. 2, 30 - 35 SRM
- No. 3, 60 - 70 SRM
- No. 4, 275 - 325 SRM

This is what you do:
- For each pound (455g) of sugar you use, bring 1 pint (473ml) of water to a boil.
- Turn on the heat and add the sugar slowly, dissolving it.
- Add 1/4 teaspoon (1g) of citric acid per pound of sugar.
- Turn on the heat and set the alarm on the candy thermometer to 230°F (110°C).
- Stir frequently while it starts to simmer.
- When the temperature hits 230°F (110°C) reset the alarm for 240°F (115.6°C).
- Heat slowly until the temperature gets to 240°F (115.6°C).
- Lower the heat to keep at 240°F - 250°F (115.6° - 121.1°C).
- For No. 1 maintain the heat for 20 - 30 minutes.
- For No. 2 maintain the heat for 90 - 120 minutes.
- For No. 3 maintain the heat for 150-210 minutes.
- For No. 4 maintain the heat for 240 - 300 minutes.
I have made it with a simple candy thermometer, not one with an alarm, and just kept an eye on it. Most recently I have begun using a dutch oven cooker and just set my oven to 240°F - 250°F (115.6°C - 121.1°C). Making this on a stove top requires constant attention and adjustment of the heat to keep the syrup between those temperatures so the oven method makes things much easier. I have bought commercial invert sugar (Becker's is the only option available in the US) and I like the result I get with my homemade invert 1000% better.
Thanks for this. I had read about using the oven, it makes a lot of sense.

Once you've reached your target colour, what's your process for storing it? I have Ball Jars that I hope will suffice.

In the following article: Invert Syrups: Making Your Own Simple Sugars for Complex Beers they discuss the end result and getting it into a syrup like form rather than having to break it up. Did you need to do this?

Regardless of when you choose to stop heating the syrup, when you’ve achieved your desired color, turn off the heat and allow the syrup to cool. What you have just made will either form a heavy syrup, a chewy, taffy-like “soft ball” candy, or a rock-hard sheet if you’ve taken it all the way to “hard crack.” So to keep things manageable, either pour the molten candy into a silicone or parchment-lined metal pan to cool (no wax paper or foil—it will stick), or dilute it back to a lighter syrup. For hard candy, you can break up the glass-like sugar into pieces, and store it in an airtight container for direct addition to the kettle.

But it’s easiest to just return whatever grade of invert sugar you’ve made to a syrup again. Boil one to two more cups of filtered water and add the hot water back to the sufficiently cooled candy. (By ”sufficiently” I mean closer to 200° F/93° C than 300° F/149° C— the higher temperature will create an explosive boil-up of steam.) Add the boiling water slowly and stir carefully until you’ve reached a syrup consistency again, then jar it off in heatproof, lidded jars. Your invert, caramelized brewing syrup should keep several months refrigerated. Make several grades of syrup and have fun experimenting with them in your beers!
 
I used the oven method, store it in a Mason jar in the fridge, heat up some water in a pot on the stove and place the jar in it to warm it for use. I pour it into a large glass measuring cup on my grain scale and add hot wort to it to dissolve it and add it to the boil.
 
I used the oven method, store it in a Mason jar in the fridge, heat up some water on the stove and place the jar in it to warm it for use. I pour it into a large glass measuring cup on my grain scale and add hot wort to it to dissolve it and add it to the boil.
Thanks. This makes sense!

Not everyone adds it to the boil, some add at flameout or during Lautering. I wonder what difference this has on the flavour.
 
Just be careful. This stuff is incredibly hot and it sticks like shi jam to a blanket. Would make a good substitute for napalm. I pour mine into jars when it's cooled down.
Check out this site. It's not exactly the invert used in historic British recipes, but their products sound wonderful and they've got a great recipe section for Belgians: Candi Syrup, Inc.
 
I start mine on the stove and move it to mason jars in the oven. I pour the hot syrup into  heated mason jars which go in the oven. Once in the oven, easy, peasy. They coo[k] until I call it done and turn the heat off. When cool enough, they get covered and put in the fridge.
 
Last edited:
With 6# aldi Morena pure cane sugar, 10 oz karo, 64oz water and 12ml Lactic acid I yield exactly 3 qts #1. If I add the invert with 10 minutes left in the boil it will lower the kettle pH and let my kettle finings work a little better. Each qt has 4ml Lactic in it so it gives me a ballpark idea of where I should land pH wise at flameout per the amount added.
 
Thanks for this. I had read about using the oven, it makes a lot of sense.

Once you've reached your target colour, what's your process for storing it? I have Ball Jars that I hope will suffice.

In the following article: Invert Syrups: Making Your Own Simple Sugars for Complex Beers they discuss the end result and getting it into a syrup like form rather than having to break it up. Did you need to do this?
I store mine in ball pint jars. They hold 1 lb. I've never had mine turn out in any other form than a syrup. They have never crystalized or solidified nor should they.
 
Ragus sells their invert both as a liquid and a solid block. For the solid, they've added sugar to the invert (glucose I think) to recrystallize it. The details are on the Ragus website.
 
Super easy.

1 pint water
1lb sugar (turbinado is great)
1/4tsp citric acid (or appropriate amount of alternative)

View attachment 733866

Bring water to boil
Stir in sugar & acid

View attachment 733867

Bring to 240°F

View attachment 733868

Place in 240°F oven
Cook until desired color is reached
When putting it in the oven, you can pour it into heated mason jars.

View attachment 733869

All of the water boils off, so 1lb sugar makes 1lb invert. IIRC, a pint mason jar will take 1/2lb invert.

Edit: a pint is ~1lb
@DBhomebrew do you find that the oven method takes considerably longer to reach the correct colour?
 
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