Influence of starter size

[dergolem]

Hello everyone,

I just switched from dry yeast to liquid yeast. Therefore read a lot of material online and the book Yeast.

To get lot of variety I split the first two batches in three fermentors (each around 4 gal) and used three different yeast strains to compare the differences. --> so overall I got 6 times 4 gal

After this I brewed a 14 gal batch and just used 1 yeast.

As a starter for the small size I used DME and in 500ml water and half a pack of wyeast (to save the other half for the next brew) --> overall 6 starters of 500ml.

As a starter for the 14gal I used DME in 2000ml water and also half a pack of wyeast.

All the calculators and books suggest that the starter size would be far to small. But after 10h starter to ferment and after 12-16h to ferment very heavily.

After finishing and bottling the beer tasted fantastic and I couldn't see any effect of the "small" starter size.

--> Could you give me a feedback on you expieriences?

Cheers

Mark

 

[IslandLizard]

Have you read this Brülosophy exbeeriment?

Now a healthy starter is always recommended, as many of us can testify after grossly underpitching in our early brewing endeavors. I pitched 1 vial of WLP802 in 5 gallons of Pilsner before I knew about starters. It was clearly not enough yeast.

The past 2 brews I've been making Brülosophy's vitality starters, using 1600-2000ml of the actual beer wort and harvested yeast slurry (not fresh vials or smack packs). I then pitch that 4-6 hours after brewing. By that time my wort in the fermentor is also at the right pitching temps.

 

[dergolem]

Thanks for the articles ... and yes I read them now .

 

[Mainer]

Have you read this Brülosophy exbeeriment?

Now a healthy starter is always recommended, as many of us can testify after grossly underpitching in our early brewing endeavors. I pitched 1 vial of WLP802 in 5 gallons of Pilsner before I knew about starters. It was clearly not enough yeast.

The exbeeriment seems to conclude that there's a significant difference in fermentation time, but minimal difference in the final result. Am I reading that correctly?

 

[porterpounder]

The exbeeriment seems to conclude that there's a significant difference in fermentation time, but minimal difference in the final result. Am I reading that correctly?

No, the fermentation time was the same to reach FG (9 days), but the starter pitch fired off much earlier visually and approached FG with a flatter acceleration curve.

 

[dergolem]

Thats how I understand it as well.

For my first 35 batches I always used different kinds of dry yeast.
And even with half a smack pack and 2000ml of starter for 14 gallons, the fermentation startet way earlier than before.

 

[Mainer]

No, the fermentation time was the same to reach FG (9 days), but the starter pitch fired off much earlier visually and approached FG with a flatter acceleration curve.

But ultimately, it concluded there's no difference in the end result, right? It says:

With a total of 20 participants, 11 correct responses would be required to reach statistical significance (p<0.05). Only 9 panelists correctly identified the different beer, suggesting a moderate OG beer fermented with a single vial of yeast is not reliably distinguishable from the same beer fermented with an adequately sized starter.

If that's the case, why is a starter so strongly recommended by almost everyone on HBT?

 

[porterpounder]

WLP 090 is a very clean, neutral, fast fermenting yeast. That is only one test. Very small sample size. Results may vary with different, more characteristic strains that put out more acetaldehyde, diacetyl, sulfur, esters or phenolic compounds. A healthy yeast pitch is a happy yeast pitch. It also doesn't say how fresh that vial was.

 

[BrewinBrian44]

I've used the Brulosophy vitality method as well for my beers with excellent results. I just pull off 500ml boiling wort from my kettle 15 minutes in, cool it down, add 1 smack pack, let it sit on the stirplate for 4hrs. My fermentation's have taken off within 12hrs post pitch, regardless of OG.

 

[smonroe]

The difference in yeast viability/vitality between pitching in early log phase vs late log vs stationary phase is dramatic. The effect of [CHO] is also huge. Yeast propagated at 10 Plato and 17.5 Plato have ~ a 20 percent end viability difference after one generation/fermentation. Weihenstephen rule of thumb for pitching= "propagation should not exceed 100 ml cells/ml". Basically pitch in early log <24 hrs with propagation beginning in around a 12 P wort. Under these conditions viability/vitality is usually high enough to allow a fermenter pitch of 5 million cells/ml in a 17.5 Plato wort (very low for whatever Mr malty or whatever the %@$# would have you use).