Induction or element inserted into side?

[mavrick1903]

I'm debating inserting an element into a Keggle, vs a flat bottom pot on an induction burner. Let's skip the cost arguments and tell me why you would do one vs the other.

 

[milldoggy]

Batch size? Can an induction plate support a 10 gallon batch at > 120 lbs?

 

[passedpawn]

Induction seems better since there's nothing in the pot. Nothing to burn a hop bag, nothing to dry-fire, nothing to interfere with whirlpooling. If your pot allows it, and you've enough power and a big enough "burner", seems like a no brainer to me.

BTW, I have 5500W elements in my pots.

 

[Crazyeyes]

Size and wattage, putting 10,000 watts into a 30 gallon kettle with water heater elements is easily done, I can't say the same about an induction burner. Also an induction burner, I think would be like using propane for heating Your wort, your heating the pot bottom and the pot transfers the heat to your wort. With a immersion heater, heat is transferred directly form the heating element to the wort.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Induction is easier if you're not into DIY. Most popular cost effective induction burner is the Avantco IC3500, w only 3500 watts. 10 gallon capable but likely slow compared to a 5500w element. From what I have read, the weight of a 10 gallon batch is not an issue. An element can be installed in just about any vessel, even an HLT cooler, while a specific kettle is required for induction.

Perhaps easier to use a controller with an element. An induction burner can be modified to use a controller if you have the skills....

IMO induction seems like a nice plug and play solution for 5 gallon batches.

 

[TexasWine]

Well, I think you need to narrow this down just a bit for us because there are too many variables concerning the direction you want to go. For instance, for my purposes I would not like using a keegle. My equipment is a single vessel BIAB set up and the narrow opening of the keggle to would be a hassle. So are you planning to be a single vessel brewer? My comment may or may not apply to your situation. And the comment that has nothing to do with how you're heating.

Also, are you going the simple route of heating and insulating, or do you want to use a controller and a pump? I think the point made above about using an external controller was a great one, but again it may not be applicable to you if you don't plan on applying heat during the mash.

So, give us some more guidance on what you're thinking so folks don't waste their time throwing out things that might not have any relevance to the direction you're headed, or at least think you're headed.

 

[Weezy]

Cleanup and maintenance is in inductions favor. No chance of scorched wort either. The pot isn't tethered to any wires either.

 

[augiedoggy]

If You had the correct type of pot for better heat conductivity to get the most out of the induction burner and doing 10 gallons or less than induction is nice but it would be for the bk only.. it lacks the temp control that can be used for other things.
Normally people do factor in cost as well as when the induction top fails or malfunctions you usually have to toss the whole thing and buy another... and I hear they are not the most reliable tech when it comes to the "portable" models.

 

[McKnuckle]

If you specifically have to decide between a modified keggle and a new pot with induction, you should answer the batch size question first. Unless you require batches bigger than 5 gallons, a keggle is ungainly to deal with compared to shallower vessels, and has no particular benefit. Especially if you start putting more complicated hardware at the bottom of it - cleaning, maintenance, etc. - that's a pain.

Induction is a breeze if you are boiling no more than, say, 7 gallons with the 3500W Avantco unit. I own one. If it fails I'll consider whether I want to get another one or adapt one of my pots for elements. I appreciate not having wires and gadgets protruding from my kettles. But full temp control would be nice. The induction burner is better than winging it with propane, though; it does have settings (by temp and by wattage). In that way, it is fairly repeatable to set it a certain way and expect similar results each time.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Batch size? Can an induction plate support a 10 gallon batch at > 120 lbs?

I use Induction hot plates for my Mashtun (Spike v3 20 gal. kettle) and HLT (20 gal. Bru Gear Kettle). I built a spring loaded shelf (for each kettle) that the induction hot plate sits on to help with the weight of the grain and water. The kettles also rest on bars that are on the side of the induction hot plate to help with the weight.

 

[kristiismean]

I would think an induction will be the easiest, no drilling of pots, can use other pots or different sizes, and safe.

but I am in the boat as you and am going back and forth

 

[Savagejair]

Crazy rig AF1HomeBrew real genius [emoji106]🏽

 

[mavrick1903]

I use Induction hot plates for my Mashtun (Spike v3 20 gal. kettle) and HLT (20 gal. Bru Gear Kettle). I built a spring loaded shelf (for each kettle) that the induction hot plate sits on to help with the weight of the grain and water. The kettles also rest on bars that are on the side of the induction hot plate to help with the weight.

Which would you say is the better pot? Spike or Bru Gear? I'm also looking at SS Brew Tech, but theirs might be the most expensive, with Bru Gear being the cheapest.

To all:
I'm currently brewing electric, with an in keggle element and only do 5g batches. I've got a home built brew-troller with a PID. My BK is a bottom/center drain so I cant whirlpool. I'm looking to add a vessel to turn my current BK into an HLT, so I can be true three vessel BK-HLT-MT.

Big debate is do I put an element in the side (which of course I can do, and understand the pros/cons of that, but am looking at the advantages of Induction and heating my BK without the extra hardware inside.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Crazy rig AF1HomeBrew real genius [emoji106]🏽

Thanks, you just made my day.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Which would you say is the better pot? Spike or Bru Gear? I'm also looking at SS Brew Tech, but theirs might be the most expensive, with Bru Gear being the cheapest.

To all:
I'm currently brewing electric, with an in keggle element and only do 5g batches. I've got a home built brew-troller with a PID. My BK is a bottom/center drain so I cant whirlpool. I'm looking to add a vessel to turn my current BK into an HLT, so I can be true three vessel BK-HLT-MT.

Big debate is do I put an element in the side (which of course I can do, and understand the pros/cons of that, but am looking at the advantages of Induction and heating my BK without the extra hardware inside.

Spike is the best. I also have a 30 Gal Spike v.3 kettle also with TC fittings. They do a great job. Bru Gear doesn't have the customer support behind their products.

I'd only use a element in your HLT tank, as the element can get pretty gunked up using it in the boil kettle and mashtun.

 

[dyqik]

An induction burner can be modified to use a controller if you have the skills....

This requires a pretty serious set of modifications to the internal wiring of the induction burner, and is probably a very extensive project. I've not seen anything on homebrewtalk indicating that someone has actually done it.

What you can't do is plug the induction burner into an external controller without modifying the burner.

 

[wilserbrewer]

This requires a pretty serious set of modifications to the internal wiring of the induction burner, and is probably a very extensive project. I've not seen anything on homebrewtalk indicating that someone has actually done it.

.

I believe user weezy modded the IC3500 and details are in his signature.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

This requires a pretty serious set of modifications to the internal wiring of the induction burner, and is probably a very extensive project. I've not seen anything on homebrewtalk indicating that someone has actually done it.

What you can't do is plug the induction burner into an external controller without modifying the burner.

Using a controller like a BCS-460 or BCS-462 and an induction hotplate like the Adcraft https://www.katom.com/122-INDC120V.html?CID=Amazon&utm_source=Amazon&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=CSE&zmam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=9&zmap=122-INDC120V you can use induction to control your temps w/o opening up the circuitry of a hot plate. All you do is plug into an outlet that is wired to a relay (that hooked up to the controller). Using a temp sensor inside the kettle that is hooked into the controller. I've been doing it for over 2 years.

 

[dyqik]

Using a controller like a BCS-460 or BCS-462 and an induction hotplate like the Adcraft https://www.katom.com/122-INDC120V.html?CID=Amazon&utm_source=Amazon&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=CSE&zmam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=9&zmap=122-INDC120V you can use induction to control your temps w/o opening up the circuitry of a hot plate. All you do is plug into an outlet that is wired to a relay (that hooked up to the controller). Using a temp sensor inside the kettle that is hooked into the controller. I've been doing it for over 2 years.

Fair enough. All of the discussion I've seen is around somewhat cheaper induction burners that don't switch on immediately you turn the power on to them.

 

[mavrick1903]

I'm not sure why you would have that much need of temp control on a BK. as long as there is some rudementary control, you're going for boil, and are going to maintain around 200f-207f for the duration IMHO YMMV.

 

[Weezy]

Using a controller like a BCS-460 or BCS-462 and an induction hotplate like the Adcraft https://www.katom.com/122-INDC120V.html?CID=Amazon&utm_source=Amazon&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=CSE&zmam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=9&zmap=122-INDC120V you can use induction to control your temps w/o opening up the circuitry of a hot plate. All you do is plug into an outlet that is wired to a relay (that hooked up to the controller). Using a temp sensor inside the kettle that is hooked into the controller. I've been doing it for over 2 years.

So that adcraft is true manual control? A temp controller can cycle power on and off to it via it's power output connection and the induction cooker will cycle on and off?? the power source can cycle it on and off???? That's awesome if so. Perfect! You could use something really cheap to run it. You don't even need BCS:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=598880

I'd buy two tomorrow if I didn't already have my setup. That'd be superior.

You need to do a write up.

 

[oujens]

Which would you say is the better pot? Spike or Bru Gear? I'm also looking at SS Brew Tech, but theirs might be the most expensive, with Bru Gear being the cheapest.

To all:
I'm currently brewing electric, with an in keggle element and only do 5g batches. I've got a home built brew-troller with a PID. My BK is a bottom/center drain so I cant whirlpool. I'm looking to add a vessel to turn my current BK into an HLT, so I can be true three vessel BK-HLT-MT.

Big debate is do I put an element in the side (which of course I can do, and understand the pros/cons of that, but am looking at the advantages of Induction and heating my BK without the extra hardware inside.

I have a standard SS Brewtech 10G pot and love it. Its also induction capable, and the more expensive SS Brewtech kettle is not (I think this is designed for burners). It comes ready to brew out of the box (with ball valve, dip tube, and plugs) where you would need to purchase additional pieces from Spike. The weldless fittings work great. It should be cheaper than Spike, but Spike does offer more flexibility if using an element. SS Brewtech does not offer customization. Both offer great products and service. I chose SS Brewtech only because it fit better with my budget.

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm not sure why you would have that much need of temp control on a BK.

People use them as heat sources for kettle mash tuns, especially for BIAB - that's the reason for temp control.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

I'm not sure why you would have that much need of temp control on a BK. as long as there is some rudementary control, you're going for boil, and are going to maintain around 200f-207f for the duration IMHO YMMV.

I use a gas burner for my boil kettle (30 gal.), but for HLT and Mashtun induction is perfect for me. If I had 220 in my garage I would probably give induction a try.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

So that adcraft is true manual control? A temp controller can cycle power on and off to it via it's power output connection and the induction cooker will cycle on and off?? the power source can cycle it on and off???? That's awesome if so. Perfect! You could use something really cheap to run it. You don't even need BCS:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=598880

I'd buy two tomorrow if I didn't already have my setup. That'd be superior.

You need to do a write up.

Yes it is manual, so if you have it turned on (using the dial on the front of the hot plate), when the BCS activates the relay for the circuit that the hot plate is plugged into it will kick on. When the temp in the kettle gets at or above the temp that the BCS has programmed it will turn off the hot plate. I've had my BCS for 7-8 years now so it has paid for itself nicely. It also manages my RIMS module and chugger pump in addition to my HLT and Mashtun tanks.

 

[Weezy]

Yes it is manual, so if you have it turned on (using the dial on the front of the hot plate), when the BCS activates the relay for the circuit that the hot plate is plugged into it will kick on. When the temp in the kettle gets at or above the temp that the BCS has programmed it will turn off the hot plate. I've had my BCS for 7-8 years now so it has paid for itself nicely. It also manages my RIMS module and chugger pump in addition to my HLT and Mashtun tanks.

Dude,
You need to make a post about this and how it works. I get that you like your BCS but you need to recognize that you're talking about true manual control induction so there are an infinite number of options for brewers to control the heater. Keep that in mind.

I didn't know such a piece of hardware existed. If I had, my whole brew system would be different.

 

[augiedoggy]

Which would you say is the better pot? Spike or Bru Gear? I'm also looking at SS Brew Tech, but theirs might be the most expensive, with Bru Gear being the cheapest.

To all:
I'm currently brewing electric, with an in keggle element and only do 5g batches. I've got a home built brew-troller with a PID. My BK is a bottom/center drain so I cant whirlpool. I'm looking to add a vessel to turn my current BK into an HLT, so I can be true three vessel BK-HLT-MT.

Big debate is do I put an element in the side (which of course I can do, and understand the pros/cons of that, but am looking at the advantages of Induction and heating my BK without the extra hardware inside.

It really depends on how your heating it... if going induction you want the triclad, If your mounting elements in it than its really more a matter a matter of cosmetics and maybe duarbility if your rough with your kettles when cleaning them.
With electric, since you dont need anything heavy you could get the same performance out of a $120 16 gallon stainless bayou stockpot with weldless fittings... Its about what YOU like better since the gains arent going to be much more than maybe the benefit of welded fittings. and if you are planing on a system where you have to move hoses around during brewing on the hot side than stainless camlocks are way easier to use and more practical. this is something thats rarely discussed because TC fittings are all the rage here for cosmetic reasons. Nice heavy expensive pots are great once your sure of the size and configuration that you need and its not a matter of money vs added value to your brewing experience.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Batch size? Can an induction plate support a 10 gallon batch at > 120 lbs?

Photo I took back in Oct.2014 of the Spring Loaded Shelf for my Mashtun Induction Hot plate. With Induction you need to be very close to the Tri-Clad kettle (like the Bru-Gear & Spike Brewing v.3 kettles). The spring loaded shelf allows the induction heating plate to touch the kettle, but not take all of the weight of the water and grain. The metal bars around the induction hot plate take all of the weight instead. The Adcraft Induction Hot plate is used for the induction hot plate.

 

[milldoggy]

Photo I took back in Oct.2014 of the Spring Loaded Shelf for my Mashtun Induction Hot plate. With Induction you need to be very close to the Tri-Clad kettle (like the Bru-Gear & Spike Brewing v.3 kettles). The spring loaded shelf allows the induction heating plate to touch the kettle, but not take all of the weight of the water and grain. The metal bars around the induction hot plate take all of the weight instead. The Adcraft Induction Hot plate is used for the induction hot plate.

That is very nice, love the ingenuity of home brewers