Incomplete Water Report

[DSorenson]

My water seems to produce good beer. However I'm going to play with basic water chemistry to see if I can improve the results. I have a friend that works in a water analysis laboratory, whose customers are generally companies that need to regulate water pollution. She provided me with a free (but very basic) water report.

My water is well water that runs through a water softener.

pH: 7.7 su (what does su mean... standard units?)
Hardness: 294 mg/L as CaCO3
Alkalinity: 55 mg/L as CaCO3
Conductivity: 662 nano siemens/cm

Though this doesn't provide a description of the mineral content, I figure it should help me start dialing in dilutions with distilled water with might help improve my beer. The way I see it, AJDelange has the most straight forward approach for my situation.

I am considering diluting with either spring water or distilled water 1:1 and using acidulated malts to ball park mash pH (for beers featuring less specialty grains. Also, at this point more "stuff" is out of the question. Not going to buy a pH meter for a while.)

I am not sure how much calcium is in my water, therefore I was considering not adding any and seeing what happens... I know I should pay for a real water report, but I have a hard time shelling out for that at the moment.

Any thoughts out there?
Thanks in advance

 

[J187]

My water seems to produce good beer. However I'm going to play with basic water chemistry to see if I can improve the results. I have a friend that works in a water analysis laboratory, whose customers are generally companies that need to regulate water pollution. She provided me with a free (but very basic) water report.

My water is well water that runs through a water softener.

pH: 7.7 su (what does su mean... standard units?)
Hardness: 294 mg/L as CaCO3
Alkalinity: 55 mg/L as CaCO3
Conductivity: 662 nano siemens/cm

Though this doesn't provide a description of the mineral content, I figure it should help me start dialing in dilutions with distilled water with might help improve my beer. The way I see it, AJDelange has the most straight forward approach for my situation.

I am considering diluting with either spring water or distilled water 1:1 and using acidulated malts to ball park mash pH (for beers featuring less specialty grains. Also, at this point more "stuff" is out of the question. Not going to buy a pH meter for a while.)

I am not sure how much calcium is in my water, therefore I was considering not adding any and seeing what happens... I know I should pay for a real water report, but I have a hard time shelling out for that at the moment.

Any thoughts out there?
Thanks in advance

Yes, PH standard units.


That is some very hard water. Do you know how the softener works? I think you'll want to figure out how the softener changes things... many use sodium as a replacement for the hardness minerals and high sodium can be no good for brewing. My curiosity is, did you friend take a sample from the well or where did the sample come from, since it's obviously not post softener, IE out of your tap.

BTW - the general consensus is to avoid using softened water in brewing. If you are using a hose bib, there's a good chance that is not connected through the softener.

Oh, and the way you are saying "either spring water or distilled" seems to suggest that you might think spring water equates to distilled.. they are vastly different things. Distilled is nearly devoid of mineral content whereas spring water can be a roll of the dice in terms of mineral and ion content - it could be soft or hard, alkaline or not, high sodium, etc... Sometimes you can get estimates online or from the company, but you might be cutting with even harder water depending on spring water you use.

 

[DSorenson]

thanks for the reply, this is what I was looking for.

To answer some questions, I am not precisely sure how my water softener works except for the fact that it uses water softener salt... which could mean sodium additions. I took the sample from the same source I get my water: the kitchen sink. This should be an accurate representation of what I am using to brew with, but I have other questions about how the water softener works... namely...

Given that my water softener is adequately supplied with softener salt, what are the chances that the water I am getting out is consistent in mineral make up?

Also, I was fully aware when I said "spring water or distilled" because I was up in the air about whether or not I thought it would be appropriate to use a water devoid of minerals.

All told I have been fairly happy with my brews, as I have mentioned. I wouldn't say I've had bad luck with water, so it's interesting that the consensus is that softened water isn't the best choice.

what's a "hose bib"? I do have the option of getting well water without the softening treatment, I believe. One of my outdoor hoses is not connected to the softener... now I just have to remember which one...

 

[DSorenson]

Since J187's last post I've done some research, looking into this matter.

I will refrain from using my softened water and will, instead, look to using primer water (aka the "sticky" water). I think I will start with distilled water and add salts accordingly.

The water softener gets rid of needed calcium and replaces it with needless sodium. I have not had "salty" or bitter flavors (other than intended) in my beers, so I will consider myself lucky and not press the issue by continuing to use my softened tap water.

 

[ajdelange]

My water is well water that runs through a water softener.

pH: 7.7 su (what does su mean... standard units?)

How ironical that you would ask this question!

Hardness: 294 mg/L as CaCO3
Alkalinity: 55 mg/L as CaCO3
Conductivity: 662 nano siemens/cm

Though this doesn't provide a description of the mineral content, I figure it should help me start dialing in dilutions with distilled water with might help improve my beer. The way I see it, AJDelange has the most straight forward approach for my situation.

It does tell us somethig, however. First is that your water contains a lot of calcium and or magnesium. Second is that it contains a lot of chloride and or sulfate. The dilution required to get the alkalinity down to inconsequential level is modest 2:1 or 3:1 but we don't know how much would be reuired to deal with sulfate/chloride. To be on the safe side you could use 10:1 but then you might as well use straight RO.

I know I should pay for a real water report, but I have a hard time shelling out for that at the moment.

It's the cost of a couple of craft beers in your favorite brewpub. Fork over and make up for it by brewing a slightly larger batch next time.

 

[J187]

How ironical that you would ask this question!



It does tell us somethig, however. First is that your water contains a lot of calcium and or magnesium. Second is that it contains a lot of chloride and or sulfate. The dilution required to get the alkalinity down to inconsequential level is modest 2:1 or 3:1 but we don't know how much would be reuired to deal with sulfate/chloride. To be on the safe side you could use 10:1 but then you might as well use straight RO.



It's the cost of a couple of craft beers in your favorite brewpub. Fork over and make up for it by brewing a slightly larger batch next time.

AJ, am I missing something? Isn't that hardness level ludicrously high coming from a source POST softener? Is something wrong with the softener?

 

[ajdelange]

I noted that you have a softener but assumed that this was pre softener water because, yes, that is a ludicrously high hardness level for post softener water. In fact it's pretty high for pre softener water but not impossibly so. If this is indeed post softener then check that the brine tank is full of salt, that there are no 'salt bridges', that the timer is firing off the regen cycle properly etc.

 

[J187]

I noted that you have a softener but assumed that this was pre softener water because, yes, that is a ludicrously high hardness level for post softener water. In fact it's pretty high for pre softener water but not impossibly so. If this is indeed post softener then check that the brine tank is full of salt, that there are no 'salt bridges', that the timer is firing off the regen cycle properly etc.

Yes, to the OP... either you are incorrect about the source you drew from being post softener, or there is something wrong with the softener. I'd look into it or bring it to the attention of whoever is in charge of the softener.

 

[DSorenson]

Who would have thought that the softener would be diagnosed as a consequence of brewing...

I assume something is wrong with the softener, I will check tomorrow.

 

[Talgrath]

If you're in the US, you can request a detailed water report from your city or county (whoever manages your water) and they are legally requied to provide it.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes but it is not required to report the items of most interest to a brewer in a format useable by him. A Ward labs report does give a snapshot of the water at one point of time at reasonable cost and is always a good investment.

 

[beernbourbon]

also....he has well water, not city water.

 

[DSorenson]

Well guys, turns out I was just out of softener salt...

What a goof I am. I am going to refrain from using that water anyway.

I'm about to read the book on brewing water by palmer...

FORWARD BY AJ HIMSELF!

 

[J187]

Well guys, turns out I was just out of softener salt...

What a goof I am. I am going to refrain from using that water anyway.

I'm about to read the book on brewing water by palmer...

FORWARD BY AJ HIMSELF!

Lol... I knew something was wrong.