Imperial stout/porter/strong input

[Alchemist42]

I'm in the middle of a recipe construction and really, just want to bounce it off a few people, see what the thoughts are and if it the consensus is that it will give me what I want or I need to tweak more.

First off, I am slightly constrained by the size of my sparging vessel (5 gallon bucket) - this just about totally maxes it out, hence the low end of the Imperial stout OG and I want 5 not 3 gallons. I've really got to get a bigger one built. Regardless...

5.5 gallons

13 lbs American Two-row Pale
2 lbs Peated Malt
1.5 lbs Special B Malt
1 lb Brown Malt
1 lb British Chocolate malt
12 oz Roasted Barley
8 oz Black (Patent) Malt

2.5 oz East kent goldings 5.5% 60 min boil

OG 1.082
IBU 30

I should say I like and want a large viscous stout. Lots of roast character. Not high on the hop bitterness, and honestly I am a little hop shy. And I've been massively impressed and in lust with a multitude of bourbon oaked brews this season and want to bourbon oak this one to.

I brewed the following bill (basically an old Rasputin clone) a few years ago, and followed the hopping guidelines pretty tightly, only to end up with something that was too hoppy for my tastes.

16 lbs Pale Malt
2.25 lbs Crystal 140
12 oz Brown
10 oz Chocolate malt
5 oz roast barley
2 oz 8% Centential plugs 120 minutes
.5 oz 8.3% Northern Brewer 120 minutes
1 oz perle 8% 10 min
1 oz EKG 5% 10 min

OG 1.085
IBU 54 IBU

So, there. Input requested. Questions answered if I'm not clear enough. And I guess, it's only a name, but if I were to brew it as above, what class if any would it fall? Am I on the right track?

Thanks, and happy holidays.

 

[hercher]

I like the first recipe better, but would be inclined to cut back on the peated malt and Special B -- I'd cut those in half. Those malts can be overpowering. Cut them back to say, 1 lb of each, and you'll still have a very complex beer. You could also then add a little more 2-row, as well.

 

[Alchemist42]

Thanks. What do you think of the hop balance in the two of them and any insights why the 2nd one was (IMO) too hoppy. 54 IBU doesn't see like too much but it was.

 

[frankstoneline]

I like the first recipe hop idea, you might also look into something like Northern Brewer or Brewer's Gold (I just BG in a brown ale at ~27 ibus and its really nice).

I agree that the special B and peated malt might be over the top, and personally probably wouldnt experiment with that much in such a big (read: pricey) malt bill.

Was the hop flavor you found objectionable in the Old Rasputin clone you did an unbalanced bitterness or more hop flavor than you desired? I usually find myself brewing malty beers with no additions as late in the boil as you have because I'm not a fan of the taste profile it provides, while in big stouts I find a formidable hop bitterness quite nice.

 

[hercher]

Thanks. What do you think of the hop balance in the two of them and any insights why the 2nd one was (IMO) too hoppy. 54 IBU doesn't see like too much but it was.

I like using a single hop variety in a beer. I think in this case, it makes even more sense because you have quite a bit going on in the grain bill. I find that too often beers that use a lot of different grains and a lot of different hops wind up with a somewhat muddled flavor. Simpler, to me, is usually better.

As for the second beer, I wouldn't have used the Centennial hops. Instead, I would have bittered with Northern Brewer. Centennial gives a citrusy flavor that I personally don't care for in stouts and porters. It may have been that you didn't care for the hop profile, not that the beer was too hoppy.

 

[Alchemist42]

I like the first recipe hop idea, you might also look into something like Northern Brewer or Brewer's Gold (I just BG in a brown ale at ~27 ibus and its really nice).

I agree that the special B and peated malt might be over the top, and personally probably wouldnt experiment with that much in such a big (read: pricey) malt bill.

Was the hop flavor you found objectionable in the Old Rasputin clone you did an unbalanced bitterness or more hop flavor than you desired? I usually find myself brewing malty beers with no additions as late in the boil as you have because I'm not a fan of the taste profile it provides, while in big stouts I find a formidable hop bitterness quite nice.

Noted about the Special B and peated...except they are both ones I've played with extensively and really like at these levels, so are probably the least experimental for me. But I won't close my mind to dropping them down.

Now that I really think about it, I can't say if it was the bitterness of flavor. I think and thought bitterness, but thinking about commercial stouts, I can't think of a single one that is too bitter, but I easily can come up with IPA's of the same purported level that I don't like. I start to wonder if it is the flavor then. Thanks.

 

[Alchemist42]

I like using a single hop variety in a beer. I think in this case, it makes even more sense because you have quite a bit going on in the grain bill. I find that too often beers that use a lot of different grains and a lot of different hops wind up with a somewhat muddled flavor. Simpler, to me, is usually better.

As for the second beer, I wouldn't have used the Centennial hops. Instead, I would have bittered with Northern Brewer. Centennial gives a citrusy flavor that I personally don't care for in stouts and porters. It may have been that you didn't care for the hop profile, not that the beer was too hoppy.

It's nice hearing this (simple is better) and remembering it. I've always done complex grain bills, but simple hop bills....except this glaring exception. I think I was trying to get out of a rut....but I like my rut I remember getting the Centennial spur of the moment as they were out of my first choice, and I just couldn't see getting 5 oz of a 5% hop with the way hop prices were. But citrus explains A LOT. I went with the store's recommendation, but I know I really dislike citrus hops, so looks like I was steered wrong.

OK, Northern Brewer it is on that note. But I'm finding I'm having a hard time dropping the peated and B to a lower level....but I will continue to think it over. The peat is well, just because I love peat (see my 100% peated ale) and the special B I'm thinking as a counter point to the pretty massive heavy dark roast bill - roast bitterness in lieu of hop bitterness. Thoughts? Semi-rhetorical questions - when does dark roast become too much?

 

[Alchemist42]

Brewed this up yesterday. Killer efficiency. 1.106 OG. Mid 80's brewhouse efficiency. A touch surprisingly the yeast has not kicked in yet after 12 hours. Crossing my fingers it's not too shocked...but it was a good solid starter, so I think it is just slow.

The Northern Brewer was the way to go. Just what I was looking for. I think you were dead on frankstoneline - I didn't like the hop flavor profile.

I left the peated where it was, but the cosmos conspired on me to make me think fast on my feet about the Special B - the store was out. So after much sampling, I settled on malt I've never tried as a sub - Bohemian malt - at the full 1.5 lbs. Somehow I ended up with an extra 16 oz of chocolate malt - help of an 10 year old in the shop I think...so I tossed it in too.

They result so far....malty roasty goodness - no where over the top for my tastes.

 

[Alchemist42]

I kegged this up yesterday. It spend two weeks in primary, then I added 4 oz of heavily roasted oak chips that had been soaked in 2 c of bourbon for two weeks. That sat for 3 weeks. So far, the tannins provided by the oak have balanced the lower amount of hops for a wonderfully roasty, deep flavored ale.