Immersion Chiller + Whirlpool Paddle = Good Idea or No?

[drgonzo2k2]

So one piece of brewing equipment that I purchased but never got a lot of use out of was NorCal Brewing Solutions Ultimate Whirlpool Paddle. I would have used it more, but I decided to use paint strainers to hold my hops in the kettle, have been happy with that route, so I've not been whirlpooling.

So this weekend it struck me that maybe o could use the paddle at the same time my immersion chiller was running to make a sort of "counter flow" chiller in my pot. Well, that worked extremely well, as running my chiller full bore and my drill with paddle attached on its lowest setting (same one I use for my grain mill) I went from boiling to about 68 in 5 minutes!!

Of course the paddle also snagged my hops bag, leaking all of the hops material out in the kettle, so lesson learned - whirlpool paddle + hop bags don't mix. However, it worked so well at cooling that for my next batch I was going to just go back to hops in the kettle, chill with the paddle/chiller, and then drain into my fermenter through a double mesh strainer.

Then I started wondering if by doing this I was inadvertently doing something harmful to the wort that would impact the final beer, and figured I should consult the experts. So what do you all think? Is this cooling method good or bad?

 

[boicutt]

The only downside is a potential fact/myth; Hot side aeration. Here's a good read.

brulosophy.com/2014/11/18/is-hot-side-aeration-fact-or-fiction-exbeeriment-results/

 

[jbaysurfer]

^ Agreed. It may be a "myth" as applied to homebrew results, but HSA is a real phenomenon, and if commercial brewers try to avoid it, I don't see why it would be a good idea for a homebrwer to tempt fate. I'd just use a spoon to rotate the wort in the opposite direction of the IC and voila! You've got yourself a makeshift counterflow. I do this with my pump all the time. Cool time is very very manageable with a 5G batch this way.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

Hey guys, thanks for your responses and the article link which I just finished reading. I was definitely worried about HSA, but I was also wondering if this method might be doing something else I wasn't thinking of.

As far as HSA goes, I am far to new to this hobby to debate anyone on the topic; however that experiment seemed to show that it was a non-issue. That being said, let's assume it is an issue, wouldn't stirring the wort with a big spoon or using one of the immersion chillers that have a whirlpool arm, also lead to HSA? Granted you can say that stirring, since the rotation is much less than you achieve with a whirlpool paddle attached to a drill, would cause less HSA, but I suppose we would need to measure water circulation rates on the drill vs. whirlpool arm to see if one could lead to more HSA than the other.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

Maybe we could ask the guy that sells the things! @Jaybird - have you ever heard of anyone using your ultimate whirlpool paddle to whirlpool the wort while using an immersion chiller to cool things down faster?

 

[drgonzo2k2]

Ok, hopefully that tagged him?

 

[Jaybird]

Ok, hopefully that tagged him?

It did.

Well for the record I personally use the ultimate whirlpool paddle on my drill on the lowest setting in my kettle with my immersion chiller running full tilt. Just be mindful not to beat up the chiller. Its a great idea to keep the wort moving while chilling with an immersion, it helps keep the hot wort in motion and next to the chiller. Most of us know that an immersion chiller is not "adding" cold its "removing" heat so keeping wort in motion is much better for chilling efficiency.
Now, that said most believe HSA is a "real deal beer killer" and I will not debate that one way or another. If you are on the HSA = BEER KILLER side of the fence then keep it slow and don't introduce O2 till you are well below temp. If you are using a paddle in there with a chiller, as you know its not gonna take long to get temps down. You will find you almost double the chilling speed so just wait to increase speeds for O2 infusion. Just moving the wort around is not going to harm anything. On the contrary its going to help.

Hope that gives some insight to my thought process behind the paddles and how I use mine.

Any thoughts, comments or ideas feel free to blast away. Thanks for including me in the conversation @drgonzo2k2

Cheers
Jay

 

[Singletrack]

How do you keep from beating the hell out of your IC while running that? I have used a plastic mash paddle in my drill. At least that avoids metal on metal. The plastic paddle is a lot cheaper too.

Now I just stir manually with the plastic mash paddle. It avoids potential HSA, and it just wasn't worth putting it in the drill, trying to control speed, keeping sawdust out of the wort, etc. Great idea to stir though.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

@Jaybird - thanks for responding! It's nice to know that the guy selling the product is using it in the same way that I came up with. Using my chiller full bore and running the paddle/drill on the lowest speed cut my chill time for 5 gallons of wort from 30-40 minutes to 5 minutes.

I won't get in a HSA/no HSA debate, but personally I will take that time savings and nice cold break.

One question I had though, let's say I...

Start the chiller on full bore
Run the paddle on low speed until I reach pitching temp
Pull the chiller out of the wort

If I'm going to be straining anyway, does it make sense to then whirlpool again after the chiller is removed and give it a whirlpool "rest" prior to just draining to the fermenter?

@Singletrack - good question. Well, truth be told I did nick the chiller a couple of times while I was getting the hang of it, but this particular paddle has a plastic piece on the bottom, so you can just push that right down against the bottom of your kettle. Then using one hand to operate the drill and the other hand to steady it, I didn't have a whole lot of issues. Like Jaybird said though, you do need to be careful.

Honestly I'd rather have some sort of whirlpool arm on the chiller vs. using the paddle, but that would involve adding a pump, etc. to my setup, and I'm just not ready to do all that yet.

 

[jhenry]

I just discovered the @jaybird paddle through a Google search. Wouldn't it be possible to do a hop stand if a whirlpool hop addition is required, then chill with the IC (stirring for efficiency), then remove the IC and then whirlpool? Wouldn't this both protect the IC from getting banged up any and also prevent any HSA (if we're assuming it's a thing here)?

I'm also a little concerned bc my IC doesn't sit centered in my kettle due to how the ends connected to the tubing bend down greater than 90°, so it sits snug to one side of the kettle. I believe this may also prevent a good central spin.

 

[Jaybird]

Thanks for the shout out. There is no shortage of ways to use this thing in your mash, Boil kettle or like me I use it in my HLT as well to get things moving and equalized before I mash in. The easy answer is, there is no wrong way to use it. Just keep in mind, if your in the HSA camp keep it moving slow till you get below worrisome temps and then let er' rip!

Cheers
Jay

 

[slym2none]

HSA is a myth. We are trying to let it die here.

 

[Jaybird]

HSA is a myth. We are trying to let it die here.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh Don't tell the masses.......... they won't listen. LOL



Cheers
Jay

 

[ss4ivan]

I stir the f out of my wort while chilling and never had any bad effects short or long term. I have beers that have been aging for 2 years and they only get better with age. I also let my mash pour into my boil kettle from two feet. IME hot side aeration is definitely a myth...for my 10 gal. Homebrew system anyways.

 

[slym2none]

I used to use a wire whisk to stir my extract in when I was using extract. Whipped the **** out of the wort getting it all stirred in.

 

[Pkrd]

HSA is a myth. We are trying to let it die here.

Have you tried smothering it with a CO2 blanket?

 

[slym2none]

 

[mesooohoppy]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh Don't tell the masses.......... they won't listen. LOL



Cheers
Jay

Do you have a replacement for the little plastic piece on the bottom of the paddle? I've used it once and now it's almost gone.. it also falls out when i move it..

Better yet, can I send back and have a small piece of stainless welded to the bottom?

 

[Jaybird]

Do you have a replacement for the little plastic piece on the bottom of the paddle? I've used it once and now it's almost gone.. it also falls out when i move it..

Better yet, can I send back and have a small piece of stainless welded to the bottom?

That's odd. Yes we have replacements. But have never sold any. How about 5 for $5 shipped to you your door? I have concerns about welding them solid without an opening but we can discuss it.

On a side note. You shouldn't #1 leave it in a boiling kettle. Not its design. Or #2 be pushing it down into the bottom of the kettle when stirring or using it. Again not its design.

Shoot me a PM and we can figure something out for you 1 way or another.

Cheers
Jay

 

[LostBoyScout]

I bounce my immersion chiller up and down to agitate the wort and generally don't worry about HSA. Have had good results - not saying I'm not doing some sort of damage, but the end product is still good and I'm thinking the more rapid chill ought to do enough good to cancel out the bad.

 

[mesooohoppy]

That's odd. Yes we have replacements. But have never sold any. How about 5 for $5 shipped to you your door? I have concerns about welding them solid without an opening but we can discuss it.

On a side note. You shouldn't #1 leave it in a boiling kettle. Not its design. Or #2 be pushing it down into the bottom of the kettle when stirring or using it. Again not its design.

Shoot me a PM and we can figure something out for you 1 way or another.

Cheers
Jay

I put it in the boil kettle for the last 5 mins to 'sanitize' it.
I don't recall ever 'pushing' on it. it has touched the bottom of the kettle though. Maybe the heat contributed to the increased wear of it.

I will send you a PM

 

[WI_Wino]

So one piece of brewing equipment that I purchased but never got a lot of use out of was NorCal Brewing Solutions Ultimate Whirlpool Paddle. I would have used it more, but I decided to use paint strainers to hold my hops in the kettle, have been happy with that route, so I've not been whirlpooling.

So this weekend it struck me that maybe o could use the paddle at the same time my immersion chiller was running to make a sort of "counter flow" chiller in my pot. Well, that worked extremely well, as running my chiller full bore and my drill with paddle attached on its lowest setting (same one I use for my grain mill) I went from boiling to about 68 in 5 minutes!!

Of course the paddle also snagged my hops bag, leaking all of the hops material out in the kettle, so lesson learned - whirlpool paddle + hop bags don't mix. However, it worked so well at cooling that for my next batch I was going to just go back to hops in the kettle, chill with the paddle/chiller, and then drain into my fermenter through a double mesh strainer.

Then I started wondering if by doing this I was inadvertently doing something harmful to the wort that would impact the final beer, and figured I should consult the experts. So what do you all think? Is this cooling method good or bad?

My only thought would be to use a different drill than what you crush grain with. Grain is loaded with bacteria and other nasties. The boil kills them all. Holding a dusty drill over the pot while chilling seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[pvpeacock]

I use a stainless steel paint mixer on my cordless drill. I use it to dough in when mashing, to stir during batch sparging, to speed cooling while using my IC and to whirlpool after removing my IC. Works wonders. Have never hit my IC with it. I just hold it in the center and squeeze the trigger.

 

[Rladd]

Would this paddle work with a false bottom in my kettle? @jaybird

 

[Jaybird]

Would this paddle work with a false bottom in my kettle? @jaybird

For sure! No real reason to whirlpool with a FB in the BK though.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Rladd]

Thank you! The FB doesn't stand up to the hop pellets well. So I was thinking of doing the whirlpool with the FB for a better approach.

 

[Jaybird]

Would this paddle work with a false bottom in my kettle? @jaybird

Sorry double post. Moved computer to the home office and didn't see it actually posted..

Cheers
Jay

 

[Jaybird]

Thank you! The FB doesn't stand up to the hop pellets well. So I was thinking of doing the whirlpool with the FB for a better approach.

What False Bottom and filtration levels are you using?

Cheers
Jay

 

[Rladd]

What False Bottom and filtration levels are you using?

Cheers
Jay

I am using a bayou classic false bottom with a custom made SS diptube and a "bouncer" inline filter. Just doesn't get everything out, and was wanting to try this paddle. What are your thoughts?