I'm F'in done with SSR's

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J

JONNYROTTEN

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Smoked my 2 year old SSR...fine
Ordered another one...constant power to element
Ordered another one...power in from PID nothing out
ORDERED 4 MORE SSR'S IM WAITING ON
$40 milled grain sitting for 2 weeks
No homebrew
No homebrew for Halloween party at this point
Aggravation level =EXTREME
 
That sucks. You go through your wiring to make sure connections are all good and that didn't lead to the failure? Where are you getting your SSR's from?
 
What SSR's are you ordering? There are a lot of cheap knockoffs around.
 
I cant see how it would be a wiring issue. It worked fine originally and have two different issues now. The last SSR LED worked in sync with the PID out light but had constant power to element and this SSR the light doesn't come on at all on ssr and no power coming out but 12V going in.
 
Wiring is a huge issue, and can manifest itself over time. If you get any kind of arc or corrosion you are going to generate more heat from resistance and BAM, failed SSR.

Where are you getting your SSRs?
 
Sounds like the replacement SSR's were faulty.
Regarding the one(s) that overheated..
Are you using a heat sync sized appropriately, with good ventilation?
Assume you used some sort of heat sync compound with them as well.
What size Element, voltage, and size SSR?

--jp
 
If during brew day you smoke an SSR simply bypass it. Run your element off the relay. I mean a 5 min wiring change and Wham you are back in bidness... I mean yeah NOT IDEAL but it will get the job done.

Just a thought.

What SSR's are you buying @JONNYROTTEN ?

Cheers
Jay
 
Jaybird said:
If during brew day you smoke an SSR simply bypass it. Run your element off the relay. I mean a 5 min wiring change and Wham you are back in bidness... I mean yeah NOT IDEAL but it will get the job done.

Just a thought.

What SSR's are you buying @JONNYROTTEN ?

Cheers
Jay
Click to expand...
How exactly would I do this.I'll brew tomorrow AM if I can figure it out. My entire setup is a PID,SSR, element switch (light switch) and Estop.About as simple as it gets. 5500W 220v

I called Aubrins when I had constant power and they said even If control mash temps by switching power on and off with a bad SSR I'll have 100% full power at all times during the boil which will give me a violent over boil compared to the 75% power I usually use
 
Element directly wired from the relay temp control on TEMP not % and just lower the temp of the boil. It will turn on and off the relay. Like I said not ideal and I would probably not START a brew day like this. I was just suggesting IF during the brew day you had issues. My HLT has been electric for well over 10 years NOT on an SSR. Simply a 240V 2 pole relay and I bring water to a boil all the time with it. You would be running 100% till you hit temp then off till you were below set point variable, then back on again. Ideal? no. but it works for sure.

Cheers
Jay
 
I know this doesn't solve your immediate problem but do you have the setup to do propane until your electrical issues are fixed. I still have my old burner from before I went electric and could use it in a pinch I suppose.
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
I cant see how it would be a wiring issue. It worked fine originally and have two different issues now. The last SSR LED worked in sync with the PID out light but had constant power to element and this SSR the light doesn't come on at all on ssr and no power coming out but 12V going in.
Click to expand...


On the one that has no light, but voltage coming in...did you ensure the PID terminals are going to the correct input on the SSR?


I know you had it hooked up right before, but maybe when you installed the last one you reversed them.

Good luck,
Dan
 
I suggest that there are three things that could be in question. First is the manufacturer. There are plenty of crappy SSR mfrs and their products can be less reliable. The second thing is the rated capacity of the SSR compared to the load. You do need a margin between rating and load, or they can be overstressed into failure. The third thing would be the size and connection to a heat sink. A SSR does generate heat and it needs to dissipate that excess. Mounting to a large heatsink and using a thermal paste between the sink and the SSR are important for longevity. I have 6 SSRs mounted to an aluminum heat sink that is 12" long, 5" wide, and has fins on it that are about 4" long. Its a monster, but it apparently works.
 
If you run off the relay as suggested make sure your relay can handle 23A for them Camco elements at full tits or you'll create new headaches for yourself.
 
2 year old SSR doesn't sound like an overheating issue unless the ambient temp was way high that day or you had it cycling more frequently than usual (which is something worth investigating, as it is not likely to have three bad in a row).

I always keep a backup on hand because when one goes, it will always be when you are brewing.
 
I'm just getting my electric brewery up and running, you guys are making me think I should order a back up SSR right now.


hmmm, and I thought I was only going to be buying ingredients for a while
 
In a previous build I had two of the cheap Foteks work fine for a year, and then one failed right after another, then both replacements failed the next brew day as well. I went back to the Auber ones after that. The frustration is just not worth $6 in savings.
 
This is an SCR, not an SSR, but Ive been using 2 of these for years with no issues ever. And I brew a lot! Both are wired to a 50A breaker, driving 5500 ULWD Camco's (I do back to back 10gal batches on brewday so needed 2 keggles). For 18 bucks you might want to keep one on hand for a backup for when your PID/SSR rig craps out. I go full tits for heating water, and dial it back to 4000W for the boil.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10000W-AC11...998263?hash=item3a7fc93e37:g:tj4AAOSw1vlUvPd6
 
wishingiwasfishing said:
I'm just getting my electric brewery up and running, you guys are making me think I should order a back up SSR right now.


hmmm, and I thought I was only going to be buying ingredients for a while
Click to expand...

You should always have a back up on hand, as that's what is most likely to go south during a brew.........Well, except for in my case when a contactor wire was loose and just about melted it when I wasn't in the garage!
 
So... For the sake of helping other out here what brand of SSR's have you been trying/using.... The generic white Fotek/inkbird ones?

They really do have a high failure and defect rate compared to pretty much all your other options .
I recommend the mager brand ones.. They are the ones both auberins and ebrew supply have rebranded as their house brand and sell only without the markups...
 
JimboVorlaufski said:
If you run off the relay as suggested make sure your relay can handle 23A for them Camco elements at full tits or you'll create new headaches for yourself.
Click to expand...

Good call.. I would hope the relay that is in there already would be sized for full load as it is. But I guess ya never know.

Cheers
Jay
 
It was a Fotek that failed after two years,I thought that was pretty good so I bought a Fotek replacement. That was the one that the LED light worked with constant power out.After that I switched to this different brand.
This is the one with power in but no power out.I should have tried something different but ordered a 4 pack of Fokeks on EBAY.If none of those work,6 total,I'll rethink my system.At this point I still think I got 2 bad SSR's.
I have the SSR attached to a large hunk of recycled heat sink (7" x3" x 2" tall) Heavy duty solid hunk of metal.Its mounted outside the control box with expensive copper type heat sink paste from Radio Shack.

second SSR: "looked" a little fancier than the Fotek,,guess not

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00843IWAK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There are a mountain of fotek knockoffs out there that are re-stickered at a higher amp rating than they actually are. Buy Mager, and get them from a *reliable*source. Unfortunately that's not E-bay these days. I bought my SSRs from Auber, which are re-branded Magers. They're still working fine.

Also: too much thermal paste is not better. All you need is a light layer between the SSR and the heat sink to insure good contact.
 
I spent a week researching SSRs before I bought mine. I believe that 90% if not more of the Fotek on the market are knockoffs or lower amp versions re-badged at a higher amp rate. There are plenty of videos of people cutting open Fotek to prove this. In your case they may work for 2 years or 2 minutes. It's a crap shoot.

In my findings Mager and Crydom are the best if bought from a reputable company.
 
LarMoeCur said:
I spent a week researching SSRs before I bought mine. I believe that 90% if not more of the Fotek on the market are knockoffs or lower amp versions re-badged at a higher amp rate. There are plenty of videos of people cutting open Fotek to prove this. In your case they may work for 2 years or 2 minutes. It's a crap shoot.

In my findings Mager and Crydom are the best if bought from a reputable company.
Click to expand...

yup... in the inkbird ssr thread (inkbird sells the white generics rebranded to thier brand) I posted a couple of manufacturer links from some of the MANY that claim they make the fotek ssrs.. some are selling them for as little as HALF OF A CENT in bulk each...

BTW im not sure why its been assumed that ebay is an unreliable source for the mager brand ssrs?... As far as I know the crappy ones are the fotek clones not mager which there are no knock off clones of that im aware of... A mager 40a ssr with heatsink and paste can be bought for under $13 shipped on ebay... The ssr alone costs more than that though either middle man rebranded..

The crappy knockoff fotek clones can be bought through many venors like amazon aliexpress newegg and even ebrew sold them for a while... some MIGHT be better than others but unfortunately its impossible to be sure whats what with the white generics.
 
wishingiwasfishing said:
I'm just getting my electric brewery up and running, you guys are making me think I should order a back up SSR right now.
Click to expand...
Depends on your setup. With my control panel panel design, most of it is redundant, on purpose: The Boil and HLT sides are just duplicates of each other. If anything on one side fails during brewing then I can simply unplug the temp probe and heating element and move it to the other side. No rewiring needed. This covers the things that are the most likely to fail including the SSR.

Kal
 
kal said:
Depends on your setup. With my control panel panel design, most of it is redundant, on purpose: The Boil and HLT sides are just duplicates of each other. If anything on one side fails during brewing then I can simply unplug the temp probe and heating element and move it to the other side. No rewiring needed. This covers the things that are the most likely to fail including the SSR.

Kal
Click to expand...

I can attest to this. I built mine off of Kal's plans. Twice I have had a failure. One plug and one SSR. all I had to do was move the boil element cable to the other plug and use the HLT PID for the boil. Finish up the brew day and make the required repairs after.
 
kal said:
Depends on your setup. With my control panel panel design, most of it is redundant, on purpose: The Boil and HLT sides are just duplicates of each other. If anything on one side fails during brewing then I can simply unplug the temp probe and heating element and move it to the other side. No rewiring needed. This covers the things that are the most likely to fail including the SSR.

Kal
Click to expand...



Thanks for the advice guys!


I suppose I could have specified that I have a two kettle rims system. I'm using a control box with a single PID and single SSR.

Kal, your website is invaluable for not only building/designing but also electric brewing. I'm just a lurker over there...but I would like to extend a hearty thank you.
 
I am with Johnny on this. I blew 5 foteks this weekend in my new panel. Pain in the ass when you are in the middle of brewing.
 
When I was researching my build a few years ago, I decided on Crydom SSRs based on their reputation. They are fairly pricey new. So I sourced a reasonably priced, small used lot of them on eBay in order to have a few spares just in case. I also put in a circuit breaker to protect it.
 
Never be afraid to buy a more expensive/quality product. Buying the cheapest SSR you can find on eBay greatly increases the changes that you'll be replacing it more than once which doesn't really save you money. Buy once, cry once!

Kal
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
It was a Fotek that failed after two years,I thought that was pretty good so I bought a Fotek replacement. That was the one that the LED light worked with constant power out.After that I switched to this different brand.
This is the one with power in but no power out.I should have tried something different but ordered a 4 pack of Fokeks on EBAY.If none of those work,6 total,I'll rethink my system.At this point I still think I got 2 bad SSR's.
I have the SSR attached to a large hunk of recycled heat sink (7" x3" x 2" tall) Heavy duty solid hunk of metal.Its mounted outside the control box with expensive copper type heat sink paste from Radio Shack.

second SSR: "looked" a little fancier than the Fotek,,guess not

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00843IWAK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Click to expand...
If you bought that exact SSR in the link as the other one you have tried the reason that it does not work (Control light not lighting up) is it has a 150-350 VAC input not a extra low voltage DC input that your PID is outputting.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
kal said:
Never be afraid to buy a more expensive/quality product. Buying the cheapest SSR you can find on eBay greatly increases the changes that you'll be replacing it more than once which doesn't really save you money. Buy once, cry once!

Kal
Click to expand...

Also knowing the limitations of the products helps to prevent some hurt. A lot if the issue with the knock off FOTEKs I have seen documented is the design used multiple lower rated components in parallel, e.g. 2× 20A TRIACs for a 40A SSR with no control to ensure the current is split equally between the individual TRIACs. I have used a number of knockoff 25A FOTEKs (and saved money) with no issue or worry because I know I am only putting 10a through them.
 
I went through 3 Foteks before waking up and going with Teledyne. Not a lick of trouble since. Of course, I'm on a nice heatsink and even vent my cabinet with a muffin fan. Then again, I brew in 95+ heat in Houston.
 
Jaybird said:
Always good advice, that's for sure!! Especially when it's something so crucial in the process and the difference in a REALLY good one and a SO SO one in like $5....
Click to expand...
Exactly.

We've sold 100's of control panels over the last 6 years (both kits and pre-assembled) and I don't remember any cases of having to replace SSRs. Many of these are to commercial establishments running the panels pretty much every day.

Kal
 

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