IIPA Recipe Critique

[aeviaanah]

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com

Recipe: Heard It Through The Hop Bine V2.1

Brewer: Steve Verver

Asst Brewer: Alan Atkins

Style: Imperial IPA

TYPE: All Grain

Taste: (30.0)



Recipe Specifications

--------------------------

Boil Size: 14.43 gal

Post Boil Volume: 12.74 gal

Batch Size (fermenter): 11.50 gal

Bottling Volume: 10.45 gal

Estimated OG: 1.078 SG

Estimated Color: 5.9 SRM

Estimated IBU: 108.4 IBUs

Brewhouse Efficiency: 77.00 %

Est Mash Efficiency: 82.4 %

Boil Time: 90 Minutes



Ingredients:

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Amt Name Type # %/IBU

17.51 gal Turlock City Water (Pale Ale Profile) Water 1 -

22 lbs Brewers Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.8 SRM) Grain 2 72.1 %

4 lbs White Wheat Malt (Rahr) (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 13.1 %

2 lbs Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.6 %

1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.3 %

2.00 oz Citra-Amarillo-Simcoe-Centennial [10.97 Hop 6 34.5 IBUs FWH

1 lbs 8.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7 4.9 %

4.00 oz HopShot 10ml [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 53.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra-Amarillo-Simcoe-Centennial [10.97 Hop 9 14.6 IBUs 30min

2.00 oz Citra-Amarillo-Simcoe-Centennial [10.97 Hop 9 14.6 IBUs 15min

20.00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 10 -

2.00 oz Citra-Amarillo-Simcoe-Centennial [10.97 Hop 11 5.8 IBUs 5min

8.00 oz Citra-Amarillo-Simcoe-Centennial [10.97 Hop 12 0.0 IBUs whirlpool 175f

2.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP09 Yeast 13 -

6.00 oz Citra-Amarillo-Simcoe-Centennial [10.97 Hop 14 0.0 IBUs dryhop

6.00 oz Citra-Amarillo-Simcoe-Centennial [10.97 Hop 15 0.0 IBUs dry hop



Mash temp 149F -60min



Hop blend which consists of 2 parts Citra, 2 parts Amarillo, 1 part Simcoe, 1 part Centennial

 

[aeviaanah]

I plan on adding 10ml of hop shot for the 60min addition but am unsure how many actual IBUs this will achieve.

 

[joshesmusica]

Not really sure what the point of the 13% wheat is. If you're hoping for a White double ipa, you would need a lot more wheat. If not, I would drop it down to like 5%.

Also, adding sugar and mashing low is typically to dry out IPAs, then you're throwing in some carapils, which would be adding to body/residual sugars. Contradicting. I would also just add the sugar at flameout so you make sure that no caramelization occurs there.

Is the first hop addition a FWH addition? If so, and I mean you can still give it a shot, but I believe it's pretty much been proven that the theory behind using flavor/aroma hops as FWH isn't what it's purported to be. At this point, most people just believe it's a smoother bitterness, although in side-by-side tests, many people are proving that one to also be false.

I also don't see any point of boiling for 90 minutes. Might as well save 30 minutes of your life (and the little amount of water that you'll boil off), by dropping that to 60.

Good hop combo though.

 

[aeviaanah]

I agree with everything you are stating and you have helped confirm my suspicions about 90min boil and Carapils. I plan on either removing the carapils entirely or mash at 152-154... Haven't made up my mind on what kind of body yet. Need more examples of commercial brews- light vs heavy body.

The first hop addition is a FWH. If I were to change that would you recommend applying that addition to 60min?

Why lower the wheat from 13 to 5%? I have to admit the 4lbs was a number I pulled out of no where, although I thought I made sure it wasn't too much for the application. I noticed a few other recipes utilize wheat but am unable to show which at this point.

I decided to use a hop blend to keep the recipe looking simple. I have hopshots in the freezer id like to get rid of too.

 

[aeviaanah]

I'm thinking I'd like a light-medium body. Should I ditch carapils and mash at say 150-151?
I like the crispness of a lighter bodied beer but also would like the candy like sweetness (which I attribute to body) in some other commercial examples. ...I'm hoping the c20 does that for me.

Corn sugar is there for abv boost

 

[joshesmusica]

I agree with everything you are stating and you have helped confirm my suspicions about 90min boil and FWH. I had also planned on either removing the carapils entirely or mash at 152-154... Haven't made up my mind on what kind of body yet. Need more examples of commercial brews- light vs heavy body.

The first hop addition is a FWH. If I were to change that would you recommend applying that addition to the 60min?

Why lower the wheat from 13 to 5%? I have to admit the 4lbs was a number I pulled out of no where, although I thought I made sure it wasn't too much for the application. I noticed a few other recipes utilize wheat but am unable to show which at this point.

I decided to use a hop blend to keep the recipe simple. I have hopshots in the freezer id like to get rid of too

With a big beer, it will likely be difficult to keep it from having a "heavier" body. That yeast says it will get you an apparent attenuation of up to 83%, which would leave you at an FG of 1.012. Not a super dry beer by any means. But you gotta remember, this isn't a barley wine, it's still a dipa. So if you're going for style, it should be pretty dry, with just enough malt backbone to not make this a hop tea. I think you will have plenty of that without the carapils, especially since you still have the caramel malt there. If you want to be able to enjoy more than one refreshing dipa in an evening, I wouldn't be shooting for anything heavy.

The wheat at this point isn't really meant for a flavor addition, but to add to the head retention. To accomplish that, you only need like 3-5%. Unless you're wanting some of the wheat character to come through in the final product. In which case, you should be aiming upwards of 20% to accomplish that.

I would not move that addition to 60 minutes. You're just wasting those hops which are only bittering additions at that point, and not much flavor is coming from them. Might as well use up your hop shots to get the bitterness and save all of those flavorful/aroma-packed hops for the end. I couldn't really comment on the timing of those late-additions, though, because it didn't show up when you copied and pasted it.

 

[aeviaanah]

I've edited the original post to show timing of hop additions.

Do u recommend mashing at 150-151 and ditch carapils?

 

[joshesmusica]

I've edited the original post to show timing of hop additions.

Do u recommend mashing at 150-151 and ditch carapils?

Ok, now that I see that, my recommendation is to take the FWH and the 30 min addition and toss those in the hopstand. Make sure that you do as you say, and wait until it hits 175F to toss those in. I would personally also move the 15 min to 10 min, but that's just personal preference. My mantra for ipas and dipas is to get the majority of my ibus from the 60-min addition, then backload it from 10 mins on. Some people take that even further and only backload it from 5 mins on, and some people are even crazier, and only do flameout, combined with different hopstand temps.

As far as doing the double dry hop, check this one out:
http://brulosophy.com/2015/05/04/single-vs-double-dry-hop-exbeeriment-results/

versus these two:
http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/26/dry-hop-length-long-vs-short-exbeeriment-results/
http://brulosophy.com/2015/09/21/dry-hop-quantity-a-little-vs-a-lot-exbeeriment-results/

I would probably still mash at 148 and still ditch the carapils.

 

[aeviaanah]

Thanks joshesmusica for all the help with this recipe. Ill report back with how it worked out. I enjoyed reading the links you provided as well! thankyou!

 

[joshesmusica]

Thanks joshesmusica for all the help with this recipe. Ill report back with how it worked out. I enjoyed reading the links you provided as well! thankyou!

Hope it helps! I'm no expert, and find combining the shared info of this site, plus trial and error, to be of utmost value.

 

[aeviaanah]

Hope it helps! I'm no expert, and find combining the shared info of this site, plus trial and error, to be of utmost value.

i agree! i will post the final recipe before we brew as well.

how did you come to the conclusion to do away with 45, 30 and 15min additions?

 

[joshesmusica]

how did you come to the conclusion to do away with 45, 30 and 15min additions?

As I said, from advice on here, plus a couple of times of trial and error. But mostly lots of reading of experiments like the ones I posted above.

The old school thought was that bittering happened at 45-60 minutes, flavor happened at 15-30 minutes, and aroma happened at 5-15 minutes. Those have since been contested, and people have begun to realize that it's pretty much all bitterness with a little flavor beyond 20 minutes. But from 0-20, it's still pretty much some bitterness mixed with variations of flavor and aroma. I still like to do 10, 5, and hopstand additions, as I mentioned. There could possibly still be merit to doing 15, 10, 5, and hopstand additions, but the problem there becomes costs vs. flavor/aroma. If I had all the money in the world, I would build my IPAs with all kinds of additions, because each will certainly add it's own characteristic. But I'm too cheap/efficient-minded to bother with that. So I typically just do a 60-min bittering, plus lots of late additions.

Although, there's a great article coming out very soon by @m00ps who is a guy that typically advocates for more hopstand and dry hop additions and less boil additions.

 

[aeviaanah]

As I said, from advice on here, plus a couple of times of trial and error. But mostly lots of reading of experiments like the ones I posted above.

The old school thought was that bittering happened at 45-60 minutes, flavor happened at 15-30 minutes, and aroma happened at 5-15 minutes. Those have since been contested, and people have begun to realize that it's pretty much all bitterness with a little flavor beyond 20 minutes. But from 0-20, it's still pretty much some bitterness mixed with variations of flavor and aroma. I still like to do 10, 5, and hopstand additions, as I mentioned. There could possibly still be merit to doing 15, 10, 5, and hopstand additions, but the problem there becomes costs vs. flavor/aroma. If I had all the money in the world, I would build my IPAs with all kinds of additions, because each will certainly add it's own characteristic. But I'm too cheap/efficient-minded to bother with that. So I typically just do a 60-min bittering, plus lots of late additions.

Although, there's a great article coming out very soon by @m00ps who is a guy that typically advocates for more hopstand and dry hop additions and less boil additions.

So, ibu is not a good method of measuring perceived bitterness? Thankyou for all of your help!

 

[joshesmusica]

So, ibu is not a good method of measuring perceived bitterness? Thankyou for all of your help!

Perceived bitterness is a bit tricky. There have been studies that show that increased hop aroma, also increased perceived bitterness. Obviously real bitterness will always be there, but with lots of hop aroma, our brains are tricked into more perceived bitterness. It's still an area that is being scientifically researched/discovered.