IBU Calculations - Late Hops Additions w/BeerSmith

[Morrey]

As we all are more aware of late hop benefits today than we were 10 years ago, BeerSmith has done well to keep up with the trends and provided ways to calculate IBU's with various late techniques.

I have a question about the way to input a particular value...Say I add a hop addition at 15 minutes left in the boil and the program assigns an IBU value. Then I flameout and add more hops for a 10 minute whirlpool while the original addition remains in the kettle. So now the original 15 minute hop addition has been in the kettle for a total of 25 minutes...so this certainly will impact the IBU contribution.

May I ask how others are treating similar situations?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I remove the original 15 minutes boil hops. Then add the 15 minute flameout additions. But I use a counter-flow chiller where it takes 45 minutes for the kettle wort to drop to 170F. If you use an immersion chiller the kettle wort will cool faster.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I never pull any kettle hops prior to chilling. In BeerSmith I edit the Equipment Profile to enable "Estimate Boil Hop Util in Whirlpool" and set the Total Whirlpool Time to whatever my recipe calls for, let BS do the approximate math, and adjust early additions accordingly...

Cheers!

 

[Morrey]

fwiw, I never pull any kettle hops prior to chilling. In BeerSmith I edit the Equipment Profile to enable "Estimate Boil Hop Util in Whirlpool" and set the Total Whirlpool Time to whatever my recipe calls for, let BS do the approximate math, and adjust early additions accordingly...

Cheers!

YEAH.....just learned a neat trick from you!!! Thanks.

 

[Jako]

I just started to mess around with late edition and flame out hop stands. so far i end up with a smooth bitterness and less IBU than expected

my last DIPA i had 20 min of Falconer flight 1OZ then at flame out i put in 3 more OZ of falconer flight and 2OZ of CTZ. i need to fine tune this method i end up slightly low on the IBU the the smooth bitterness and aroma and flavor are worth it.

i use Wort for my brew app.

 

[dmtaylor]

As we all are more aware of late hop benefits today than we were 10 years ago, BeerSmith has done well to keep up with the trends and provided ways to calculate IBU's with various late techniques.

I have a question about the way to input a particular value...Say I add a hop addition at 15 minutes left in the boil and the program assigns an IBU value. Then I flameout and add more hops for a 10 minute whirlpool while the original addition remains in the kettle. So now the original 15 minute hop addition has been in the kettle for a total of 25 minutes...so this certainly will impact the IBU contribution.

May I ask how others are treating similar situations?

Great question. I divide the whirlpool time by 2 and then add that much time to every hop addition. So your 15-minute boil addition becomes 20, your 60 if you had one becomes 65, and your 10-minute whirlpool is treated the same as if it had been boiled for 5 minutes. This method works really really well for me.

 

[Morrey]

Great question. I divide the whirlpool time by 2 and then add that much time to every hop addition. So your 15-minute boil addition becomes 20, your 60 if you had one becomes 65, and your 10-minute whirlpool is treated the same as if it had been boiled for 5 minutes. This method works really really well for me.

That's a great (and simple) way to look at the additional value hops contribute to IBU's during WP. I was playing around with the BeerSmith program's equipment profile as @day_tripper guided me to review in post #3. I played around with that feature and it did adjust IBU's automatically if a WP is added in a particular recipe in which an equipment profile is established as I have done in my program. Your idea is neat and I plan to compare the two for an added learning experience. Thanks, Dave.....good idea.

 

[Morrey]

I just started to mess around with late edition and flame out hop stands. so far i end up with a smooth bitterness and less IBU than expected

my last DIPA i had 20 min of Falconer flight 1OZ then at flame out i put in 3 more OZ of falconer flight and 2OZ of CTZ. i need to fine tune this method i end up slightly low on the IBU the the smooth bitterness and aroma and flavor are worth it.

i use Wort for my brew app.

Frankly, I didn't much care for IPA beers a few years ago when they were insanely bitter from the use of hops during the boil. Now that I (we) have learned to control bitterness by way of late hop addition techniques, IPA beers are pretty much a mainstay in my beer lineup. Takes more hops this way, but well worth it IMHO.

In fact, I am building a Brut IPA recipe that has NO hop additions in the boil, then saves the hops for FO, WP and DH. This is why I am asking for ideas calculating IBU's gained from late additions.

 

[Jako]

Frankly, I didn't much care for IPA beers a few years ago when they were insanely bitter from the use of hops during the boil. Now that I (we) have learned to control bitterness by way of late hop addition techniques, IPA beers are pretty much a mainstay in my beer lineup. Takes more hops this way, but well worth it IMHO.

In fact, I am building a Brut IPA recipe that has NO hop additions in the boil, then saves the hops for FO, WP and DH. This is why I am asking for ideas calculating IBU's gained from late additions.

sorry i definitely misunderstood.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Just a quick somewhat on topic question. It takes 5 mins to drop temp from boil to say 170, would you get more accurate hop utilization data if you added a 5 min “whirlpool” to account for that time? 5 min hops are closer to 10 min hops??

 

[dmtaylor]

Just a quick somewhat on topic question. It takes 5 mins to drop temp from boil to say 170, would you get more accurate hop utilization data if you added a 5 min “whirlpool” to account for that time? 5 min hops are closer to 10 min hops??

5 minutes isn't super significant and can most likely be safely ignored.

 

[eric19312]

I estimate my whirlpool temp in Beersmith to be 180. At flameout I turn off the burner and start the IC with a pump recirculating. When I see 190F (about 2-3 min) I stop the water to the IC. Kettle will stabilize at about 185 in another minute or so. Then I add my whirlpool hops and start my timer. After 30 min the kettle will be about 175 and I start my chiller back up.

Works for me but I do prefer some bitterness in my IPAs. Tried this idea of getting most bitterness from whirlpool conversion a few times and just don't get what I am after without a true bittering charge. Now if brewing IPA I make sure to get about 25-30 IBU from a 60 minute addition of either a high alpha hop or more commonly hop extract.

 

[Murphys_Law]

5 minutes isn't super significant and can most likely be safely ignored.

LOL! I probably should have prefaced my post with, "I know I am overthinking this but...!"

 

[ncbrewer]

This article
https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/ discusses hop utilization at different temperatures during the steep.