I need help with salts , PLEASE !!

[Romex2121]

I’ve been reading about salt additions just about all day and just when I think I have a starting point I’ll read something else and be just as confused as when I started.
I want to brew a 3 gal. Blonde ale tomorrow but I want to use calcium chloride and gypsum to see if it makes a difference in the flavor / feel of the beer , I’m planning on using RO for all water...
I’ve got calcium chloride ( little white ball looking stuff ) and gypsum also have acid malt (if needed) .......

3 gallon blonde ale (4.8 abv/20ibu)
2.1 gallons for mash
3.6 gallons for sparge
4.24 pounds of 2 row
8 oz. vienna
7.2 oz. wh. Wheat
2.7 oz carapils/ dextrin
*2 oz. acidmalt (if needed for PH )*
All Hops at whirlpool

how much calcium chloride and gypsum do I need for a nice clean balanced Beer using RO water ???
And this is what I haven’t been able to get a straight answer on all day when do You add these salts??
All at mash ?
mash and sparge ? How much for each ??
or do I treat all water as a whole prior to brewing ???
I’ve tryed to use a few of the sites that have calculators for this kinda stuff but they won’t work on my phone... again the more I think I understand it the more I’m confused especially on when to add salts,
I need to know how much of what to add when .................

 

[Coastalbrew]

I recommend using one of the spreadsheets like brun' water. Not sure if they have a mobile compatible version, but I know Brewer's friend has one. I typically add some salts to the mash water and some to the sparge. The amounts of salts and acidification will change depending on the grain bill and the amount of water, which is where the software comes in to play. In brun'water there are water profiles to choose from which give you target salt levels and then you use trial and error to get your additions to line up with the recommendations. I just did a blonde ale and used the yellow balanced profile. It's still in the fermenter, but the hydrometer sample rated great. It's super easy once you do it a bit.

An alternate if you don't want to mess with software would be to do the simplified strategy from the simple water chemistry primer here on the forum.https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/post-8807081

 

[Romex2121]

I read the primer where it said 1tsp or 2 of CC and a tsp of gypsum, etc etc ....
but when to add seems to go in 100 different directions ,,,,
do you add it All at mash ???
Split between mash and sparge ?????
or treat entire water used ????

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I read the primer where it said 1tsp or 2 of CC and a tsp of gypsum, etc etc ....
but when to add seems to go in 100 different directions ,,,,
do you add it All at mash ???
Split between mash and sparge ?????
or treat entire water used ????

This all depends on the software you are using I think. I use Beersmith and I enter both my tap water profile and target water profile. Im assuming that if you are starting with RO water, everything is all zeros. Beersmith will calculate the total amounts needed for each salt to achieve the desired profile AND if you click the appropriate check box to save the sparge salts until the boil, it will tell you how much of it to add to mash vs boil. Not sure what calculator you are using, if any.

 

[SEndorf]

dup post

 

[Coastalbrew]

I don't use the techniques listed in the primer, so perhaps someone with experience in that technique will chime in to clarify...

But in looking back at the first few posts in that thread AJ states the given mineral and acid malt amounts are per 5 G of water and that he recommends treating the total volume of water at one time rather than separating the mineral additions. So combine your mash and sparge water, treat it all with the appropriate minerals, then separate it into your mash and sparge volumes and brew on.

Good luck on your brew day, and when you get the chance check it one of the spreadsheet programs, it's time well spent.

Cheers!

 

[Romex2121]

Went and played with Brewers Friend water sheet for a bit and from what I’m seeing if I add 2.8 g Gypsum (73 so) 2.0 calcium chloride (55 ca) and 1.5 oz sauermalt to the mash it shows my mash PH To be approximately 5.3 And everything balanced flavor wise , maybe just a touch favoring the hops .....
Not sure if it’s right or wrong but I think I might go with it cause I’m really tired of trying to understand how water additions work...

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Oldie but a goodie

 

[VikeMan]

Not sure if it’s right or wrong but I think I might go with it cause I’m really tired of trying to understand how water additions work...

Don't give up. If you haven't read this -> Intro to Brewing Water Treatment <- yet, I'd recommend it. Then follow that up with the Water Knowledge pages at the Brunwater site.

 

[mabrungard]

I find that somewhere in the range of 50 to 100 ppm of sulfate and/or chloride tends to provide a pleasing level of flavor when starting with RO. Without that content, some beers can be 'bland'.

When to add? It really can be at anytime in the brewing process. But there are consequences. Adding all the hardness (calcium- and magnesium-containing) salts calculated for the whole batch to the mashing water can help depress mash pH, but it might overdo that too. Adding those salts in proportion to the mashing and sparging water volumes is OK too. And then finally, adding all those salts to the kettle can work too, but then you're missing out on the mash pH reducing effect of those salts and high pH can be detrimental to beer.

If you're not into calculations, the recommendations presented in the Water Primer are way better than doing nothing. They will make a difference, no matter what you choose.

 

[Romex2121]

Thank you for the responses and I do apologize for coming off as a little frustrated last night (I was) ...
the only water spread sheet I could get to work was Brewersfriend (have account) on my ph and my work laptop won’t let sites like that thru , I have a PC at the house but couldn’t remember the passwords ( long time since I used it) and didn’t feel like messing with it at the time.....
If I did it right the numbers I posted yesterday is what brewers friend showed for mash additions, I was worried about using acidmalt with RO water due to the lower starting PH of the water but I went back into brewersfriend and played with starting water PH of 8 (default) and took it higher and lower and spread sheet says I’ll be in the right PH zone using the acidmalt and salts in the mash .....
I don’t have a PH meter yet but do have strips , I’m hopeing they’ll be somewhat accurate , if anything I have baking soda so if PH drops hopefully a few sprinkles will get it back up , I also read that gypsum will bring PH up but wouldn’t that throw the flavor profile out of whack ??
Im gonna go with what I’ve worked out for now and see what happens , at the worst I’ll still be beer maybe not good beer but beer , if bad I’ll try again Next Set of 6 days off ... milling grains now wish me luck and thanks again for your experience & response ......

 

[VikeMan]

If I did it right the numbers I posted yesterday is what brewers friend showed for mash additions, I was worried about using acidmalt with RO water due to the lower starting PH of the water but I went back into brewersfriend and played with starting water PH of 8 (default) and took it higher and lower and spread sheet says I’ll be in the right PH zone using the acidmalt and salts in the mash .....

The pH of your strike water doesn't matter in determining mash pH . Its alkalinity does, and the dissolved ions (some of them) do.

I also read that gypsum will bring PH up but wouldn’t that throw the flavor profile out of whack ??

Gypsum actually decreases mash pH.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Clearly there are many options here. The attached thumbnail as seen below is merely 1 option: