I NEED help with my efficiency

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Getting good efficiency isn't some kind of black art. There are only so many variables. 1. Crush 2. Water - chemistry, volume, temp. 3. Time in mash 4. Sparge - volume, temp.

You forgot the most important variable: making sure you're measuring temp, volume, and gravity accurately; and understanding what volume and gravity measurements mean at different temperatures, especially if you aren't using software, or if you aren't sure your software settings are set correctly.

Test strips are pretty cheap.

They are cheap; but they aren't very accurate.
 
Some humble advice: people have thrown you a bunch of ideas. I'd be careful not to change too much at once. If I were in your shoes and I wanted to sort this out, I'd set up the next several brews so that you can eliminate variables. First, I'd make sure your volumes are correct and you're not losing too much wort in your system.

Then, I'd pick a simple recipe like a blonde ale (no dark malts to lower pH). I'd follow the brewing science water primer and use RO with slight CaCl and acid malt additions. My reasoning is that many people use that water profile with good results and RO water is a clean slate.

If your efficiency is immediately better, then you've figured it out - invest in a pH meter and read the science forum! If not, then move on to crush or sparge method - just not both at the same time.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll get it figured out. There is always that temptation to try it all at once - especially when brewing time is precious. However, in my experience, those types of shortcuts really do cause long delays.
 
My two cents: when you get everything else the way you want it (and good luck), try mash stabilizer 5.2. I have found this stuff no good at controlling mash ph, but it'll give you another 5-10% efficiency almost every time. Also, i was too timid with my mill fearing a stuck sparge. I'm milling at .040 and still never had a problem. Next stop: .035!

It actually reduced my efficiency by 10+ points.
 
Well I appreciate all of the advice y'all have given me. I am going to assume that water is "ok" my mash tun is working properly, I know my thermometer is accurate, but I am going to have the LHBS run my grain through their mill twice, or tighten then up and see if that steps up my efficiency. I have not been too concerned with the efficiency in the past, but the next few beers I am brewing are supposed to have a slightly sweeter finish a better mouthfeel. The past few beers have finished rather dry, and will definitely not fit the profile for the next brews. Most likely I will wind up buying a mill just because I don't like my projects failing at the hands of others, I can always adjust my procedures to make my stuff work... Looking on the bright side, the beer I brewed yesterday is bubbling up a storm and I can drink it here sometime soon!

Once again I like to thank all of you, it is very nice to be able to ask for advice/suggestions from such a great community and they actually try and help out. Although there are a lot of variances to opinions, it means a lot to have so much help. I will report back as soon as I figure out what is going wrong.
 
And if I can offer any advice to anyone on here. Do not get this kind of a cooler for your MLT. I thought the wheels were a good idea but they are useless with the barb sticking out. And the way the internal drain is, it was an absolute pain to get it put together.

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Ztp said:
And if I can offer any advice to anyone on here. Do not get this kind of a cooler for your MLT. I thought the wheels were a good idea but they are useless with the barb sticking out. And the way the internal drain is, it was an absolute pain to get it put together.

Your whole problem there was you used the stock drain hole to install your valve. For that cooler you want to drill a hole for your valve on the other side of the cooler, the front side, and your dead space and the other problems you mentioned will disappear. That's a great cooler right there.
 
Dead space is one thing I do not have a problem with. If I leave the cooler flat I have maybe .25 gallons of dead space. Once the flow gets to a certain point I prop up one end and it drains out the remainder. I MAY have .10 gallons of dead space. So I do not think this is the issue, therefore I doubt it would fix my problems. Especially since the original drain hole is in a recessed spot, it allows for better drainage in my opinion.
 
Ztp said:
So I do not think this is the issue, therefore I doubt it would fix my problems. Especially since the original drain hole is in a recessed spot, it allows for better drainage in my opinion.

Your problem is not being able to roll it around, plus a difficult install? A hole in the front would fix those issues. I have this same cooler that I will soon be making into a mash tun. By drilling through the front I will easily be able to work in a manifold drain. There will be no need to tip, and the only dead space will be that small recessed area. Then I'll be able to use that handle and wheel it all around, instead of picking it up and lugging it everywhere.
 
Ohhh im sorry, I thought you meant my problems with my efficiency. Sorry, I have been stuck on that point all day, and I just assumed you were referring to that, not the transportation part of it.
 
Now that you've shown us that design of cooler you are using, I am thinking that maybe the design of the cooler could be contributing. Do you have a proper mash paddle or are you stirring it with some kind of a spoon? Because with the rectangular design it would be easy to get poor extraction if you weren't stirring that grain from the outside edges back into the center. I would think you could easily lose 10% this way as opposed to a Rubbermaid tun where this isn't really an issue.
 
Well I stir it with a large slotted stainless spatula, then I have a large spoon to get into the corners. I do my absolute best to get everything separated and exposed to the water. I normally stir very vigorously for a couple minutes at the minimum.
 
I double batch sparge, and I will echo what others have said...stir, then stir some more, and when you think you're finished, stir some more. I made 2 changes to my brew routine. 1: cacl & gypsum additions to RO water, along with sauermaltz, and 2: double batch sparge with MUCHO stirring. at 2 minutes, i'm just getting started. The result has been efficiencies predictably 85 to 90%.
 
OP, I know you said you've had three different LHBS's crush your grains, so you think that fact rules out a bad crush. I hate to say it, but they are in the business of selling beer making supplies! It is in their favor to make sure your efficiency is low, so you will buy more grain! They can say this isn't true all they want, but I don't buy it! The day I started crushing my own grain my efficiency jumped by as much as 15%. So, I would say it is no coincidence that all three of the places you bought your grain aren't crushing it enough! Buy a Corona Mill and crush it till you think it's too fine. I'm willing to bet your efficiency will jump up dramtically! And..... with no ill effects!
 
Ya you're probably right. I will just order one tomorrow and see what the heck happens. Not like you can get much worse than what I have been running.
 
Ya you're probably right. I will just order one tomorrow and see what the heck happens. Not like you can get much worse than what I have been running.

I get lots of fine material and flour in my crush, but I also get good looking husk material. It's slightly shreded looking, but not to the point of being too much. I also use a SS braid like you, and lautering is no problem. Don't pay any mind to the dreaded "tannin" warnings. You gotta turn the husks in to flour AND have pH that favors tannins to worry about that!
 
Stauffbier said:
OP, I know you said you've had three different LHBS's crush your grains, so you think that fact rules out a bad crush.

I don't think anyone could say that without coming over to OPs house with their mill and seeing what he could do with a proper crush. Out of 5 or 6 online HBSs I've used I am only familiar with one - BMW - that would give the crush I need to get 75% efficiency. Out of the 2 LHBSs I've used, I got 60% from both. These guys are in the business of selling grain as you mentioned, and I've had 2 proprietors tell me that if I'm getting over 60% (what the "big boys" are getting according to one) that my beer isn't as good as it could be. Meh.
 
I don't think anyone could say that without coming over to OPs house with their mill and seeing what he could do with a proper crush. Out of 5 or 6 online HBSs I've used I am only familiar with one - BMW - that would give the crush I need to get 75% efficiency. Out of the 2 LHBSs I've used, I got 60% from both. These guys are in the business of selling grain as you mentioned, and I've had 2 proprietors tell me that if I'm getting over 60% (what the "big boys" are getting according to one) that my beer isn't as good as it could be. Meh.

Well, I will admit that my local LHBS does crush it right. The guy that owns the mill they use is an avid homebrewer that makes great beer, and he always gave me a finer crush than any online HBS ever did. Anytime I used grains he crushed I got +75% vs. anytime I used online suppliers I got 55%-65% at best. Then when I got my own mill and crushed to the point of being scared (like Yopper said), I started to get 79% -81% efficiency with zero astringency. Coincidence? Maybe.. But, I will stick with crushing the snot out of my grain!
 
I say the same as most. Grind and stir. My barly mill set at.035 turns most to flour and husks. You will see a great difference between the stores grind and your own, dough in well and a good stir a couple of times in 60 min. will get you into 70 & 80%.The first batch I did with my grind shocked me, I could not beleive the hydrometer readings coming from the runnings of the MLT! From 60% eff. with store grind to 80-85% eff. in one batch. Now I am a solid 85% or higher, hit my temps and adjust PH in the sparge water helped greatly.in finally making good beer. Cheers
 
You might want to check that your hydrometer is reading correctly.
Also make sure to correct for temp.
 
I guess I have been lucky using LHBS crushed grains, tap water, and batch sparging I usually pull around 85% efficiency. The only thing I could offer is make sure your volumes and temps are correct, remember to adjust your hydrometer reading for temps. I started brewing The beginning of the year, extract/PM and AG the past few months batch sparging same water and the only time I got bad efficiency 50-60 was when I was off on my mashing volumes.
Again newly brewing myself so take it with a grain. Hope you get it worked out.
 
Well a corona mill is on its way. I always put my recipes through beer smith so I think the volumes should be good. But we will find out this weekend.
 
I'll second the crush. I completed a half dozen batches on my set-up and was getting 60-68% from the store's crush. Received my new mill last weekend and made a batch last night - 76%!
 
on my first batch i got a 65%. when i was crushing my grains i made a note of the roller spacing because it seemed big to me. last week i went in and asked if i could change the setting a little finer because my eff was low. i was told that there setting should be fine. the onsite brewer who was making a batch at the time laughed and said ppl mess with the settings all the time and told me to use one he has it set at now. yesterday i hit a 78% eff on just my second attempt. i also mash high and stir/add cool water till i hit my desired temp.
 
I've read through all of this and I was having the same issues. I had recently switched away from using a cooler to a direct fire setup. I just utilized the "stainless kegs" in beersmith for my setup b/c it is very similiar. I made four or five batches on it and nothing was turning out good. I was measuring my efficiency and it was low. I had been treating my water, I crush my own grains, had been hitting good ph, etc and I couldn't necessarily dial it in. So on this last one, I paid a great deal of attention to my boil off, trub loss, chill loss, etc. I took pre boil measurements and found that I was hitting in the mid 90's with my mash efficiency; however, I was losing a lot more to trub, cooling, etc. Also, I wanted to start shooting for 10 gallons bottled, which affected my "batch size." I took what I learned from this last brew and backed into everything on beersmith and compared it to what I actually got. If I would have had the correct numbers in for equipment and batch size, I would have hit an efficiency in the 80's. Essentially, because I have now reconfigured my equipment profile and what I am targeting, I had to readjust my recipes by adding a little more grain to increase OG. Once I really started playing with the software, I found it quite interesting and it was a good learning experience. It taught me a lot about my process. Hopefully, this will solve the problem of things tasting "watered down" and a lack of malt profile from beers that I know were spot on with temp, ph, etc.
This was just my experience and I thought I would share it with you. Maybe it will help, maybe it won't.....good luck!
 
Sure, it will. Many people routinely get 80-85% with batch sparging. Continuous sparging maybe be marginally more efficient, but normally only 1-2% and not worth changing equipment for. Two of my homebrewing idols, Kai Troester (braukaiser.com) and Denny Conn (dennybrew.com) batch sparge with awesome results.

I'd still look at the crush- I've had some poor crushes from more than one online homebrew store.

One thing that may be a factor is your water chemistry. Do you know your water chemistry, or have you ever taken any pH readings of the mash? What about conversion- have you ever done an iodine test for conversion?

I know when I batch sparge instead of fly sparge on my system I go from 85% to 65%. That being said its all about consistency so whatever works well on you system is what's best for you.
 
Well the corona mill came in, I got her dialed in to where it is making a pretty good crush. Gonna start brewing up an Oktoberfest here in just a little while so we will see if crush was my problem.
 
Good luck. I conditioned my grains the last batch I did. The crush turned out excellent
 
Well the corona mill came in, I got her dialed in to where it is making a pretty good crush. Gonna start brewing up an Oktoberfest here in just a little while so we will see if crush was my problem.

Keep us informed!
 
I know this would probably fit more under my old junk corona thread, but mine was so ugly I figured I would post it up here as well. I was pretty impressed with the crush this thing will produce after some tinkering and adjusting though. Haha

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I know when I batch sparge instead of fly sparge on my system I go from 85% to 65%. That being said its all about consistency so whatever works well on you system is what's best for you.

Boy, that's strange. I've never known it to make that much difference. I wonder what's up......
 
Well I have about 5 mins left in boil and just by tasting the rubbings I can tell there is so much more sugar. So far it looks like crush was the culprit but I will report when I get some readings other than my tongue.
 
Well it was much better this time. I came out with a 1.058 for OG which will be about perfect for an Oktoberfest. My efficiency still was not fantastic, but I missed my temperature a little, and my volume came out a little high, but I bet it will turn out pretty dang good.
 
Well it was much better this time. I came out with a 1.058 for OG which will be about perfect for an Oktoberfest. My efficiency still was not fantastic, but I missed my temperature a little, and my volume came out a little high, but I bet it will turn out pretty dang good.

If your volume was a little high, that would explain a lower reading. Did you figure your efficiency?
 
It was around 63 percent. It was actually your Oktoberfest recipe, I adjusted it a little for my low efficiency, and had to sub a few things.
 
I'm betting that getting a real mash paddle, and stirring the mash more would get you at least a 5% increase. Get a mill and do a finer crush to get the other 10% and you're golden.
 
I'm betting that getting a real mash paddle, and stirring the mash more would get you at least a 5% increase. Get a mill and do a finer crush to get the other 10% and you're golden.

He actually got a Corona, and this was his first batch with it.

Ztp, it sounds to me like you need to dial in your water volume better, maybe tighten up that Corona a 1/4 to 1/2 turn (don't be scared to do this), and I bet your efficiency will go up even more. Maybe start calculating your water volume yourself instead of using software (unless you already do). And like Bottlebomber said, stirring is good. Don't worry if you lose a few degrees on the mash...
 
Ya I will tweak the corona a little tighter next go around and see if I can squeeze a few more points out. And I will also calculate my own water next time and see if that helps as well.
 
Do you do a single batch sparge? I've heard of a few people greatly increasing their efficiency by splitting up the sparge volumes into 2 or 3 infusions. No hard in trying
 
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