I need an ale yeast substitute for Wyeast 2112 Cali Lager

[DanielG]

Hello! A brew shop I order from accidentally sent me all the ingredients for a brew, but it is a brew which uses Wyeast 2112 Cali Lager yeast. I don't have the equipment to do a cold fermentation but was wondering what the best White Labs ale yeast would be a good substitute.

The ingredients for this brew are as follows:
10 LBS American 2-Row
2 LBS Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner Malt
1 LBS English CaraMalt
3 OZ Czech Saaz Hop Pellets

This will be my fourth brew so I don't even know what I'm making, but it was basically free so I'm making it!

Cheers for any help I can get.

-Dan

Side note: I did email the brew shop to let them know that they sent me a package not intended for me and they told me to keep it.

 

[highmtbrewer]

it says the temp range is 58-68 so as long as you can keep it in the low to mid 60's you should be good or you could use an american ale strain

 

[Aonghus]

It is hard to go wrong with US-05. Depending on your temps you might also consider Nottingham. I usually use Nottingham if the temps are going to be below 60 (to avoid a slight peachiness from the US-05). But if your temps are in the low 60's you can use that 2112 lager yeast. I have a 2112 that I fermented at 64 and it tasted great at the 5 day gravity reading.

Cheers

 

[DanielG]

Thanks highmtbrewer and Aonghus. I definitely won't be able to keep it under 65* Fahrenheit (the highest this particular Wyeast is supposed to be kept at). So, I need to find something (most likely an ale yeast) that will be similar to this Wyeast 2112 Cali Lager yeast that does best between 65-73* Fahrenheit (that's the temp range of my closet). Any suggestions based on the recipe listed above?

 

[tooldudetool]

Like Aonghus said, go with Fermentis Safale 05. It's my go to yeast for any kind of American ale, its very clean and forgiving as well. You could really use pretty much any yeast, it's just going to give the beer a bit of a different character, but assuming it was brewed well, it should be great. 73 degrees ambient is going to be a bit high for any ale yeast though (other than some Belgian strains), especially when you consider the fermenting beer temp will be 3-5 degrees higher than that. Controlling fermentation temps is the number one thing you can do to improve your beer (assuming the rest of your process is sound).

 

[DanielG]

Like Aonghus said, go with Fermentis Safale 05. It's my go to yeast for any kind of American ale, its very clean and forgiving as well. You could really use pretty much any yeast, it's just going to give the beer a bit of a different character, but assuming it was brewed well, it should be great. 73 degrees ambient is going to be a bit high for any ale yeast though (other than some Belgian strains), especially when you consider the fermenting beer temp will be 3-5 degrees higher than that. Controlling fermentation temps is the number one thing you can do to improve your beer (assuming the rest of your process is sound).

Cheers!

 

[BigFloyd]

Nothing that ferments well in that temp range will be like Cali lager yeast. You're too warm to safely use Nottingham (it gets nasty over 68*F). US-05 would be my choice too.

Is there any way you can get your fermentation cooler? Water bath with frozen bottles? Swamp cooler? Anything? Temp control ought to be your #1 priority when deciding what your next brew gear purchase is going to be.

FYI-- With 2lbs of Pilsner malt, you might want to do a 90 minute boil to drive off the DMS.

 

[DanielG]

Nothing that ferments well in that temp range will be like Cali lager yeast. You're too warm to safely use Nottingham (it gets nasty over 68*F). US-05 would be my choice too.

Is there any way you can get your fermentation cooler? Water bath with frozen bottles? Swamp cooler? Anything? Temp control ought to be your #1 priority when deciding what your next brew gear purchase is going to be.

FYI-- With 2lbs of Pilsner malt, you might want to do a 90 minute boil to drive off the DMS.

I do have a 10 gallon rubbermaid water cooler I use for mashing that I can easily plug up to fill with cold water. I live in So Cal so keeping fermenting beer cool is definitely going to become a problem soon. I'm going to try to use White Labs WLP001 yeast as I read that is a good substitute for the Safale 05. And thank you for the tips on the 90 minutes boil.

 

[BigFloyd]

I do have a 10 gallon rubbermaid water cooler I use for mashing that I can easily plug up to fill with cold water. I live in So Cal so keeping fermenting beer cool is definitely going to become a problem soon. I'm going to try to use White Labs WLP001 yeast as I read that is a good substitute for the Safale 05. And thank you for the tips on the 90 minutes boil.

No worries. WLP001 liquid is the same Chico strain as US-05 dry.

If you brew much and enjoy the hobby, seriously consider (if you have the room) setting up a fermenter fridge or freezer with a controller like an STC-1000. If you can snag a decent used unit from Craigslist, you can set the whole thing up for $100 (possibly less) All of your fermentation temperature worries will disappear and you will see a noticeable improvement in your brews.

 

[DanielG]

No worries. WLP001 liquid is the same Chico strain as US-05 dry.

If you brew much and enjoy the hobby, seriously consider (if you have the room) setting up a fermenter fridge or freezer with a controller like an STC-1000. If you can snag a decent used unit from Craigslist, you can set the whole thing up for $100 (possibly less) All of your fermentation temperature worries will disappear and you will see a noticeable improvement in your brews.

My place is quite small, but maybe I could swing it. $100 isn't a huge investment and I'm sure it is well worth it. Any cheap builds that you could link or recommend?

 

[RedShirt]

Bohemian Lager (WY2124) can be used far into ale temps. Brewing TV had a "Lager Workarounds" episode that also might be helpful.

 

[DanielG]

Bohemian Lager (WY2124) can be used far into ale temps. Brewing TV had a "Lager Workarounds" episode that also might be helpful.

Thanks, RedShirt. I will check that out!

 

[RedShirt]

Oh and one more: Kolsch yeast (WLP029 for example) might also be a great yeast for a lager-y beer at ale temps. Have fun and let us know which way you go.

 

[jbaysurfer]

It's pretty warm in SoCal right now. Depending on if you have an interior closet that stays at sub 70F, I'd do a search for "swamp cooler" to figure out how to keep your temps down. To be honest, in this weather, with no temp control, you might want to consider a Saison yeast.

 

[DanielG]

Oh and one more: Kolsch yeast (WLP029 for example) might also be a great yeast for a lager-y beer at ale temps. Have fun and let us know which way you go.

Yes, I definitely will. My brother actually went to go pick up the WLP001 a bit ago so we can make a starter before we brew tomorrow night. But I'll let you know how it turns out Thanks again for the suggestions! I'll have to keep them in mind if this turns out to be a good recipe I want to keep around.

 

[DanielG]

It's pretty warm in SoCal right now. Depending on if you have an interior closet that stays at sub 70F, I'd do a search for "swamp cooler" to figure out how to keep your temps down. To be honest, in this weather, with no temp control, you might want to consider a Saison yeast.

It's an interior closest. It used to house the water heater tank for my place but we switched to one of those outside tank-less heaters. As for a water cooler, I'm looking into building one of those cheap coolers as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxSLbpAwibg

The closet has been pretty good at keeping below 73* Fahrenheit but I will definitely have to invest in a temp controlled fermentor for the upcoming months as it gets warmer.

I did read about Saison yeasts, but I've never been too fond of beer which utilizes them. I tend to sway towards big hoppy beers like Stone's Enjoy By, Subliminally Self-Righteous or even Ballast Points Tongue Buckler has been a recent favorite.

 

[BigFloyd]

Bohemian Lager (WY2124) can be used far into ale temps. Brewing TV had a "Lager Workarounds" episode that also might be helpful.

I've had a Cali lager on 2124 that was tasty, but it was fermented at 62*F. I'm doubtful, however, about it doing well into the 70's.

 

[BigFloyd]

My place is quite small, but maybe I could swing it. $100 isn't a huge investment and I'm sure it is well worth it. Any cheap builds that you could link or recommend?

Here's the basic rundown of an inexpensive yet effective controller that lots of us use.


The STC-1000 is a dual temperature controller. You wire it into a standard 2-plug outlet that you mount in some kind of project box (either homemade or bought at Radio Shack). One (cool) outlet is for the freezer/fridge. If your fermenter chamber is placed where it’s cold (like a garage in winter), you plug some kind of small heater into the warm outlet and then put that heater inside the freezer. Otherwise, just use the cold outlet.

Set the target temp (in Celsius) on the STC-1000. Set the tolerance (default is +/-0.5*C). When the temp (as read by the sensor) climbs 0.5*C above the target, it powers up the cool outlet and keeps it energized until the temp drops to the target and then turns it off. Likewise with the warm outlet if it gets 0.5*C too cool. You tape the sensor on the side of the fermenter and place some kind of insulation like bubble wrap over top of it so that it reads the bucket temp and not the air.


http://www.amazon.com/All-purpose-Temperature-Controller-STC-1000-sensor/dp/B00862G3TQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382149071&sr=8-1&keywords=stc-1000


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/stc-1000-setup-beginners-433985/#post5538096

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-fish-tank-controller-build-using-wal-mart-parts-261506/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-aquarium-temp-controller-build-163849/



http://brewstands.com/fermentation-heater.html

Hope this helps.

 

[DanielG]

Here's the basic rundown of an inexpensive yet effective controller that lots of us use.


The STC-1000 is a dual temperature controller. You wire it into a standard 2-plug outlet that you mount in some kind of project box (either homemade or bought at Radio Shack). One (cool) outlet is for the freezer/fridge. If your fermenter chamber is placed where it’s cold (like a garage in winter), you plug some kind of small heater into the warm outlet and then put that heater inside the freezer. Otherwise, just use the cold outlet.

Set the target temp (in Celsius) on the STC-1000. Set the tolerance (default is +/-0.5*C). When the temp (as read by the sensor) climbs 0.5*C above the target, it powers up the cool outlet and keeps it energized until the temp drops to the target and then turns it off. Likewise with the warm outlet if it gets 0.5*C too cool. You tape the sensor on the side of the fermenter and place some kind of insulation like bubble wrap over top of it so that it reads the bucket temp and not the air.


http://www.amazon.com/All-purpose-Temperature-Controller-STC-1000-sensor/dp/B00862G3TQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382149071&sr=8-1&keywords=stc-1000


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/stc-1000-setup-beginners-433985/#post5538096

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-fish-tank-controller-build-using-wal-mart-parts-261506/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-aquarium-temp-controller-build-163849/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I-iwFLykxs

http://brewstands.com/fermentation-heater.html

Hope this helps.

.

This is great! Thank you so much, BigFloyd.

 

[BigFloyd]

.

This is great! Thank you so much, BigFloyd.

You're most welcome. Having a setup like that will transform your brewing experience. Having that kind of precise control is so very nice. You can also cold crash which greatly improves clarity.

 

[Minky]

I've been using the Son of Fermentation Chiller for years now. It's a great CONTROLLABLE means of managing fermentation temperature, and doesn't cost much.

http://www.ihomebrewsolutions.com/son-of-fermentation-chiller/

 

[DanielG]

Beer update:

Brewed on March 9th
Bottled on April 13th

OG: 1.062
FG: 1.006
ABV: 7.35%

Grains:
10 LBS American 2-Row
2 LBS Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner Malt
1 LBS English CaraMalt

Hops: 3 OZ Czech Saaz Hop Pellets (60, 30, 15[I have no idea why I picked these for hop addition times]).

Yeast: WLP001 California Ale Yeast

Nice very light brown color, but has an overwhelming clove taste. It's not a bad beer, my brother really likes it, but I don't think I would make it again.

 

[JPrather]

Nice very light brown color, but has an overwhelming clove taste. It's not a bad beer, my brother really likes it, but I don't think I would make it again.

Well, I've never heard of Saaz giving a "clove" flavor, so it's very likely that the taste was imparted by yeast being fermented on the warm side. If and when you have the ability to control fermentation temps, you could consider brewing this beer again just so you can see how much of a difference temperature control makes.

P.S. I read the whole thread and just wanted to mention that it's great how helpful people were with their advice, and gave the OP direct information instead of telling him to "do a search".

 

[DanielG]

Well, I've never heard of Saaz giving a "clove" flavor, so it's very likely that the taste was imparted by yeast being fermented on the warm side. If and when you have the ability to control fermentation temps, you could consider brewing this beer again just so you can see how much of a difference temperature control makes.

P.S. I read the whole thread and just wanted to mention that it's great how helpful people were with their advice, and gave the OP direct information instead of telling him to "do a search".

You're spot on, JPrather. It was a warm week in Southern Cali when I was fermenting and I don't have the ability to control fermentation temps yet, but it is the next thing I'm getting!! So, you are probably right that is where the clove flavor came from.

You're also spot on with the second comment. I can't even begin to say thanks to all the people who have helped on this post and who have posted on this forum. I do much more lurking than posting and even though I've only been brewing since February I feel like this forum has helped SO MUCH. That's why I came back to post my results, as unsatisfied with them as I am, maybe they will help someone else.

If I've learned anything from this forum... Document everything!