I need advice on Pliny The Elder

[J2W2]

Hi,

I'm an extract brewer, and I'm planning to brew a Pliny The Elder clone next month.

I see More Beer and Adventures In Homebrewing (probably others as well) have clone kits for sale. Does anyone know if they are the same kit? AIH has theirs on sale for $5 off, plus a 14% coupon today only. I know More Beer says they worked with Vinnie on their clone.

Also, I mainly brew recipes now, instead of kits, and since I keg, I generally upscale my recipes to 5.5 gallon batches so I get a full keg, even with transfer waste. From what I've read, this clone has quite a bit of that because of all the hops additions. Does anyone know what the final volume is from this kit after kettle, primary and secondary loss?

I know there are clone recipes out there, some I believe that Vinnie was supposed to have collaborated on. So I'm debating on whether to go with a kit, or to enter a clone recipe into BeerSmith 2 and upscale it to something like a 6-gallon batch.

Thanks for your advice!

 

[saltymirv]

I would just buy the ingredients yourself, its usually cheaper and you can scale up to 5.5 gallons like you said. I've noticed that kits (I'm not saying these kits as I've never used them) tend to skimp on ingredients as well. They usually include the least amount of grain and hops possible. Most people that buy kits are new to brewing so they don't know better

This guy has a great recipe for cloning Pliney, very easy to convert this to extract as well

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2015/10/pliny-elder-40.html

 

[J2W2]

This guy has a great recipe for cloning Pliney, very easy to convert this to extract as well

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2015/10/pliny-elder-40.html

This looks very interesting - I think I'll give it a try. Since I've never been fortunate enough to have an actual Pliny, I'm not exactly sure what it should taste like anyway!

I've got all his ingredients in BeerSmith 2 as an all grain recipe. Having never brewed all grain, I'm not sure which type of mash to select.

Based on his description, perhaps a "Temperature Mash"? BeerSmith lists six of them: 1 Step (Light, Medium or Full) Body and 2 Step (Light, Medium or Full) Body. It also has a number of varions for Decoction, Double Infusion, Single Infusion, as well as BIAB.

Switching between various ones adjusts the ABV by up to 2%, which I think would effect the conversion to extract. So, any suggestion on which setting I should use for the mash step in the software?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[normonster]

Russian River is just around the corner from me (and they have got me for the purchase of numerous cases of Pliny) and I would say Pliny is a light bodied ale. Very very hoppy, but geeeeewd.

If I were in your shoes I'd just get the morebeer kit, follow the directions and see what comes of it. I actually did just that one time and the beer was good, but the bitterness was a tad out of hand. If I recall it takes something like 2.5 oz of first wort hops....I might cut that down a hair.

Either way, if you brew it from the kit (or really any version) and just go through the process you'll have a baseline from which to experiment for your next attempt. I stopped at one try my self...now that I have some idea of pH and water adjustment I should probably try it again. All that malt means, depending on the water you start with, your pH could be super high which could affect your efficiency. A little lactic acid will take care of that.

 

[saltymirv]

This looks very interesting - I think I'll give it a try. Since I've never been fortunate enough to have an actual Pliny, I'm not exactly sure what it should taste like anyway!

I've got all his ingredients in BeerSmith 2 as an all grain recipe. Having never brewed all grain, I'm not sure which type of mash to select.

Based on his description, perhaps a "Temperature Mash"? BeerSmith lists six of them: 1 Step (Light, Medium or Full) Body and 2 Step (Light, Medium or Full) Body. It also has a number of varions for Decoction, Double Infusion, Single Infusion, as well as BIAB.

Switching between various ones adjusts the ABV by up to 2%, which I think would effect the conversion to extract. So, any suggestion on which setting I should use for the mash step in the software?

Thanks again for the help!

Try turning on "partial mash" and then BIAB medium body. The BIAB part is for steeping the crystal, which I recommend doing in a muslin bag.

Since the grain bill is so simple in this recipe, all you have to do is find the right amount of extract to replace the 14 lbs of 2-row. After a quick sub it looks like 10 lbs of Light LME produces the same amount of gravity. The crystal and sugar additions do not change. You can add the sugar at any point in the boil.

Other combinations that could work are like 4 lbs DME and 5 lbs LME. You can play around with the ratios you want in Beer Smith

 

[jayjaytuner]

make sure u emjoy a very high ibu beer before brewing, not saying you wont, but it would suck blowing a chunk of money for nothing.
not sure hoq to work beersmith with extract...

 

[shetc]

Currently drinking Morebeer all grain Pliny the Elder kit based on a recipe from Vinnie. $40 for 5 gallons of brew including 15 oz of hops. Seems like a good deal to me. Tastes good. Haven't had a Pliney in a couple of years so not sure how close the clone is to it.

 

[J2W2]

Try turning on "partial mash" and then BIAB medium body. The BIAB part is for steeping the crystal, which I recommend doing in a muslin bag.

Since the grain bill is so simple in this recipe, all you have to do is find the right amount of extract to replace the 14 lbs of 2-row. After a quick sub it looks like 10 lbs of Light LME produces the same amount of gravity. The crystal and sugar additions do not change. You can add the sugar at any point in the boil.

Those settings seem to work pretty well. I didn't see a target volume in the posted recipe. At 5 gallons it comes in at 8.9% ABV and 121.9 IBUs, both of which seem a little high. At 5.5 gallons, that drops to 8.1 ABV and 116.4 IBU, which seems a little closer to Russian River's stats (although they don't supply IBUs).

You are right on the simple grain bill; I realized that when I looked at the recipe further. Putting 12 lbs of LME into a 6 gallon batch puts the ABV at 8.5%, which is a tad high but not bad. I could tweak it a bit further by swapping some DME for the LME. Or I could cut the dextrose in half, to around 5.5 oz, which puts the ABV right on 8%. Swapping LME for dextrose shouldn't really have any impact, should it?

I haven't decided yet if I'm going to adjust the hops up for a 6 gallon batch, or just leave them as they are in the recipe. Even at 6 gallons, the projected IBUs are 103. Since I'll have partial ounces leftover on all the hops, I could always scale those up. The Apollo addition at 90 minutes is the only exception; the recipe calls for exactly 1 oz of that one. I could always scale up the 90 minute CTZ addition a tad to offset that.

jayjaytuner, I haven't met an IPA yet that I didn't like. A buddy of mine raves about Pliny, but there's nowhere close to get any where we live. If I brew it, I'll make myself love it!

shetc, That's just wrong - I want one now! Sure looks good!

normonster, I have debated on going the kit route. But after going with recipes, I find them much easier to adjust when you know everything that went in. My last kit was a bit disappointing, because just as saltymirv said, it really seemed like they skimped on the specialty grains, especially when compared to recipes for the same beer (one of which supposedly came from the brewery themselves).

Thanks for all the great advice!

 

[BigDog007]

I've got Pliny on tap from the morebeer kit. I've tried virtually all the kits and each was very good. I only wish I could try a real Pliny to see how close I'm getting.

I think my favorite version was actually plinian legacy which I got from Midwest or northern brewer. Don't remember which for sure, that beer was amazing and didn't last long.

Cheers!