I got shut down - no more outdoor brewing

[olllllo]

I would also suggest you try and meet some brewers in you area and see if a brewout at one of their homes or even at a park. Here in AZ you can rent a ramada with electrical and water. You need a beer permit, only if you are drinking.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Then again, I live on a military base, or as I like to call it, a small gated community with armed guards.

To keep people out or IN?

 

[ewbish]

I got a call from my homeowners association this weekend. In the message the woman says somethign to the afftect of "some people have noticed you brewing... something in the garage. Whatever it is, I think it's probably against fire safety laws and we'd like you to stop."
I called up my local fire dept this morning to get some info, and, indeed, an open flame within 10 feet of a structure is not allowed in a townhome setting like ours. He didn't say it was illegal, but if an inspector saw it they would make me stop.
I do not have a private yard large enough that would keep me 10 ft from a wall or fence, which means I'm moving operations indoors. Which means 2.5-3 gal batches since our stove sucks. Which means my banjo cooker and 20 gallon Blichmann are essencially useless to me until we move. This f'n BLOWS!

Screw 'em. Tell 'em you're Wiccan, and threaten a law suit against the HMA for religious discrimination.

 

[jgln]

Time it rent a garage somewhere.

That really blows. I hate modern living. Rules up the ass and building so close together you can shake hands with your neighbor through the window while taking a **** on the toilet.

Usually these associations are headed up by a group of people that think they are the congress of the USA. Power mad I tell Yuh!

Well, you needed something brewing wise to spend your moeny time on (in between looking for a new house). Might as well be the electric brew rig.

If you want to get even, sit on a lawnchair in front of your unit looking like my avatar.

My association stopped that activity years ago. 10.11.224a :No angry clowns sitting on front lawns.

 

[SumnerH]

Bingo. That's exactly what the fire inspector told me. I contacted my HOA and they said, "oh, it's just beer." What the hell did you think it was, woman?!

They didn't know. They assumed it's something illegal (likely meth). They sent the note phrasing it as a "fire hazard" issue to avoid confronting a "potentially dangerous drug dealer" about his illegal activity. The whole note reads like a "wink, wink" sort of "we know you're doing something illegal, we'll pretend it's a fire hazard thing to get you to knock it off without bringing the cops into our neighborhood but if you don't comply we'll have to get them involved".

I wouldn't be too surprised if the issue basically disappears now that whatever busybody was imagining a drug lord taking over the neighborhood has an idea what's really going on. This is why I was saying to go talk to them in a friendly, non-confrontational matter--a lot of the time it's that they're clueless and going down there to talk politely can turn that into "oh, now that we see what's going on that's fine" while going down there angry would make them defensive and inclined to stand their ground for no real reason.

OTOH, whoever reported it could just dislike your "uglification" of the neighborhood by brewing, so there still might be an issue.

 

[RC0032]

Whats the cost of the fine?

 

[FireBrewer]

Bingo. That's exactly what the fire inspector told me. I contacted my HOA and they said, "oh, it's just beer." What the hell did you think it was, woman?!
But I did ask her about grills, and she is aware. She said they put a notice in the monthly bulletin in the warm months reminding people not to use their grills within 10' of a wall. Not to say I don't see people using their grills in our tiny yards, but certainly no one would complain about that.
I guess this just means more small batches and more experimentation.

Local codes regarding open flames within close proximity to townhouses/apartment buildings make sense...but it still sucks and you can bet they're not leaning as hard on their friends who are grilling right next to their house.

I hate HOAs. Full of self-righteous control freaks. Time to go electric...and then time to make their life hell---let a batch of grain spoil for a week then put it in a bag on their lawn for trash day. They garbage guy will be pretty pissed at them.

 

[mmb]

Screw 'em. Tell 'em you're Wiccan, and threaten a law suit against the HMA for religious discrimination.

This is the correct answer.

 

[SOB]

I still dont see what's wrong with simply closing the garage door?! Dont forget some ventilation. Out of site, out of mind...

 

[snailsongs]

Just one more reason never to move into a place with an overarching community "association" policing, monitoring and attempting to control it's residents. ridiculuous why people want to live in places like that.....

 

[Gussymo]

Come on up to Harmony Grove/Lodi and you can brew in my driveway. There is no stinking Homeowners Ass. here.

 

[Schlenkerla]

You should stand out there someday, with your gear all set-up, drinking a beer and never light your burner and see how long before the cops & FD take to show up.

You might buy a block of dry ice and put water in the kettle so it looks as if its steaming.

How the hell will they know if you lit the sucker if the flame is covered?

I imagine they will whig-out even if its all electric.

Really try setting it up and do nothing but sit by it drinking a beer.

Keep doing it if they say nothing, maybe sooner or later you can fire it up.

Another idea, do it under the cover of darkness. Start at midnight.

 

[Boar Beer]

Just go electric
I took my SS kettle and converted it
I used a Brewmation 220 conversion. Cost a few bucks but it works great


http://brewmation.com/

 

[Donner]

Well, i don't always like rules like this, but generally, if the rules were in place before he moved in then he shouldn't complain. IF they added the rules after he moved in then i understand. Also, all the apartments i've ever lived in have had rules against grills near the building. Given some of the neighbors i've had (especially in college) i'm glad they weren't allowed to use any open flames near our common wall. Remember, rules aren't made for those who can be trusted to be careful and behave, they are made for the ones who have ruined it for the rest of us.

Yeah, it sucks, but part of homebrewing is adaptation and you'll find a way to adapt and overcome this.

 

[golfnmotorcycles]

I think the definition of "open flame" needs to be clearly defined.

In my town, open burning is not allowed. In my case, that applies to an open pile of debris (limbs, leaves, construction debris, etc), burning anything in a drum (55 gallon barrel) and such. Burning wood/sticks in a fire pit, isn't frowned upon. I'm sure if I started throwing leaves in and stinking up the place, prompting a neighbor to complain, it probably would be frowned upon.

All that said, I maintain that using a cooking device for the sake of cooking - and that is what you are doing - is NOT open burning. Just a gas grill has grates, a grill, and a lid over the fire, a propane "fish cooker" has the grill around it, and (usually) a pot over the top of it.

I'd seek clarification, probably by way of continuing to brew until someone really wanted to challenge me on it.

 

[SOB]

Just one more reason never to move into a place with an overarching community "association" policing, monitoring and attempting to control it's residents. ridiculuous why people want to live in places like that.....

I live in a "place like that" with no problem of them "attempting to control" me whatsoever! Everyone pays a $70 a year fee and the HOA keeps the common area(s) mowed and landscaped and that's it! Not all associations are bad...I think the OP just has some snooty neighbors that like to complain. When someone complains then it's up to the HOA to do something about it and enforce the rules.

 

[samc]

Life is too short to be in a pissing contest with your neighbors. Get yourself elected to the board! I did that once and my first order of business was to add motorcycle parking in the underground garage. Mission accomplished - then we sold the damn place and moved to a single family home! Suggest an outdoor barbeque/brewing area for everyone to use.

 

[jgln]

I live in a "place like that" with no problem of them "attempting to control" me whatsoever! Everyone pays a $70 a year fee and the HOA keeps the common area(s) mowed and landscaped and that's it! Not all associations are bad...I think the OP just has some snooty neighbors that like to complain. When someone complains then it's up to the HOA to do something about it and enforce the rules.

$70 a year, that is cheap. How many units in your association? I pay well over $1k a year but we are a small association of 7 units, one property/building. We maintain our own private pool though.

 

[JVD_X]

The only reason the HOA said anything is because someone complained. You will know because if you ask the HOA they have to have a provide a picture of the violation. No picture, no HOA complaint, and thus a homeowner complaint.

 

[IrregularPulse]

you can bet they're not leaning as hard on their friends who are grilling right next to their house.

I say sit out these next few weeks when people start firing up grills and take pictures, then send a COPY of each picture to the HOA and DEMAND that they either put a stop to those people immediately, Allow you to brew, or you will be suing the HOA for Discrimination. And if all go wells, you'll catch Mrs Snot-ass herself or her husband.

I still don't see what's wrong with simply closing the garage door?! Dont forget some ventilation. Out of site, out of mind...

That's still a direct violation of the same rule he's breaking. He's less likely to get caught, but you're still violating the same law while not standing up for yourself. But that's more important to some than others.

 

[jgln]

I think the definition of "open flame" needs to be clearly defined.

In my town, open burning is not allowed. In my case, that applies to an open pile of debris (limbs, leaves, construction debris, etc), burning anything in a drum (55 gallon barrel) and such. Burning wood/sticks in a fire pit, isn't frowned upon. I'm sure if I started throwing leaves in and stinking up the place, prompting a neighbor to complain, it probably would be frowned upon.

All that said, I maintain that using a cooking device for the sake of cooking - and that is what you are doing - is NOT open burning. Just a gas grill has grates, a grill, and a lid over the fire, a propane "fish cooker" has the grill around it, and (usually) a pot over the top of it.

I'd seek clarification, probably by way of continuing to brew until someone really wanted to challenge me on it.

Rules for multiple unit dwellings and associations where groups share common expenses are a lot different than for single homes, even more so the more rural you get. Cooking on decks, especially covered decks is not allowed at least in my area even using cooking devices. I have heard this law 2x here and I believe even he got confirmation from his local fire marshal it was not allowed. I know what you mean though, why not just say "with flame" rather than "open flame".
I also believe there might be something against using a tank of gas to cook with in such areas. There is fear if a fire does start a fireman doesn't want to be fighting a fire to find there is a tank of gas in the middle of it.

 

[redraider629]

One more reason I hate HOA's. If it is not a law how can the fire inspector tell you to stop brewing if you are caught?

 

[Hammy71]

What a bummer...just another reason we moved from our first home (a townhouse) to a single family home (with no HO) as soon as we could afford it. I'm a firm believer in property rights.....The right to do what ever I want (in reason of course) on the property I pay taxes and mortgage on...... Go electric for now....save some cash up...and get the hell outta dodge....

 

[blackwaterbrewer]

F**k authority. F**k the homeowners. F**k the government. you can find a way around it if you use this mindset to fuel your creativity and determination. Rules are for the weak minded. if you are being safe, then you will prevail. Brew on, brother!

 

[McKBrew]

The thing is that many cities have the same laws regarding cooking with grills, burners, etc... within X feet of a dwelling. It's not a HOA rule, but an actual part of code. Most places don't enforce it.

The OP could be a stickler for the the rules and request that the HOA enforce the rules for everyone, but most of us wouldn't be an ass just because we had the rules enforced on us.

Current options

1) Go electric
2) Find a way to be more discreet
3) Wait until you move
4) Smaller batches indoors.

Regardless of the "law" it still p!sses me off that there are busybodies out there that look to find trouble so that they can raise a stink.

 

[chrispykid]

Tough situation. This would be my strategy:

1. Move your brews out in front of the garage instead of inside. If you can't get 10 feet away from a structure, get as far away as you reasonably can.
2. Remember the HOA person said what you're doing is "probably illegal" which means that she doesn't know whether it is legal or not. Exploit that ignorance. Find a way to run into her and thank her for the warning, tell you checked it out with the FD and they confirmed that it's not legal to brew inside. You're glad you didn't get fined before you moved your operation into your new spot where you're "all clear."
3. Take visible and significant steps to reduce any whisper of a fire hazard. Wind screen, solid robust looking base for your rig, etc.
4. Clean up after every brew session and keep reasonable hours (not saying you don't already).
5. Make sure that you comply to the letter of the law with every other regulation of the HOA.
6. Throw a homebrew party for all of your immediate neighbors as soon as possible. You need to demystify your hobby and make these people beneficiaries of it rather than people that are annoyed by it. There might still be one nagging b!@ch that continues to make a fuss, but at least this way you have some allies in the community. Never underestimate the importance of being a good neighbor - kill them with kindness.

Good luck!

 

[KerryD]

I'd go in the yard where everyone is using their pits. Face it, this is all about complaints. If someone else complains, you will basically be in the same boat as everybody using their pits.... stop me, you got to stop them.

As far as HOA's go... I've dealt with them for 30 years in Construction and Real Estate. I've seen areas with poor HOA's or no HOA's struggle to keep values up. I've never seen an area with a strict HOA see decreased property values..... in fact it's exactly the opposite. And, that's what they are for when run correctly.

 

[hopsoda]

I'm Sorry to hear that , people need to mind there own business.

When I started brewing I used 2 - 5gal SS stock pots. I just boiled all my wort in 2 pots instead of 1 and added my hop additions 1/2 in each pot. That way I could boil all the wort for a 5 gal batch - then mix them together after cooling.

I'm not sure if that's a true full boil , but it worked , and it was the only way to bring that much liquid to a boil on my stove.

If you do get stuck doing indoor boils I hope that can help.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I brew in the garage for cover. WI winters pretty much suck, and now we're coming up on flood season (read: rain galore). So moving to an open area is sort of counterintuitive. I think going electric is a good option for now, assuming it's in any way cost effective. If a simple $150 heat stick will do the trick, I'm all for it! I heat up my mash and sparge waters on the stove anyway, the propane is just for the boil.
I also think people's suggestion of going to an HOA meeting is a good idea. Just put it out in the open as to what it is I'm doing.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Property value vs freedom. Personally, I'll take the freedom.

My parents lived in a new neighborhood years ago (they were the first house) and the damn association even stated what color of leaves your tree's had to be. WTF??

Oh yeah, carbon copy neighborhoods with neighbors that don't speak to each other.. unless it's via the HOA for a complaint. That's the lifestyle!

I'd rather be living in a shack in duh woods. (well one with Internet, gas and power, phone...)

 

[hopsoda]

Do they make those sticks , in 220v? if there 110v they might not get hot enough , or take a really long time. (I'm just assuming I have never used one)
you might want to look at a 220v, hot water tank element , I have a 5500w element in a kettle and it will bring 5-6 gal of liquid to a boil in about 30min.
there about 12-15 $ and you have to do some fabricating with other parts.

There is some examples on here somewhere but i cant seem to find them now?
anyway ... its cheaper and it works , just be safe around electricity.

 

[ewbish]

Why I don't live in the city. Life is so much simpler in rural S. AZ. Instead of homeowner associations and police patrols, we have AR-15's and property lines.

It's very simple, no complex BS like "define just what is meant by an open flame". Here, it basically works like this...........don't let your issues, attitude, or animals cross my property line, and I won't shoot it/you with my AR-15.

There is true beauty in the simple elegance of it and it's amazing how much better people get along under a very simple set of rules like this.

 

[Austin_]

I feel your pain. I live in a townhouse and all I have are little back and front porches that are covered with balconies. I wish I could brew out on my front porch, but I understand the ordinances in place are there for safety. Hell, there's some people that live around me that I wouldn't trust rubbing two sticks together, much less using a propane burner.

You should look in to trying the Texas Two-Step with a small 3-5 gallon cooler.

 

[vav]

How is this even a debate? Keep doing what you're doing. **** your HOA.

 

[sirsloop]

brew in the street. Got any laws about open flame in the street?

 

[COLObrewer]

I'd park an old ****ty ass camp trailer in the lot and convert it to a brewhouse, but then they probably would ***** about that.... come on people wake TF up!!! It's time for a Dang revolt I tell ya, people have lost their minds....can't control the govt so they want to make their own and the more rules the better....man .. . never mind.

 

[beesy]

I lived in a condo for 4 years or so and it has been my experience that people ***** just to *****. You get a lot of people that sit around and have nothing better to do than make others miserable because they somehow think they are entitled to act as undercover agents. These type of people piSX me off big time.
Last year i was in a city park with my 60degree hitting some golf balls and some ****** bag comes up to me and bitches on how $500,000 was just spent to reseed the park's grass last year and i was ruining "his" park and blah blah blah. I just ignored him and then he comes back in 10 minutes with his dog (off leash which is against the law mind you) and tries intimidating me with it. "My house sits on the edge of this park" and blah blah blah. The dog came up and licked my hand and i would never hurt a dog, but I pulled out my phone and told him he had about 5 seconds to get his dog away from me before it got a wedge to the cranium and that i was calling the police to file an assault report against him for using his dog in a threatening manner and for not having dog on leash in a municipal park. He changed his tone fairly quickly. Some people just need to realize they're total dicks!!:rockin::rockin:

 

[Corkster]

I say you get drunk and then get naked and then go brew your beer in public.... yeah.. that'll show 'em!

 

[ChshreCat]

Watch out for the Tulpa, man...

 

[stevea1210]

I am truly sorry for this. I am in agreement with many that this was probably brought on by lack of understanding. A few cold ones can fix a lot of bad feelings.

I say if you can afford electric, it may be your best option currently. It's cheaper than a new house at least.