If that works for you, great. I'd personally consider a 5% beer and a 7% beer two totally different beers. For those of us that use a program to formulate our brews, an accurate efficiency number is necessary. I just got done brewing, and I ended up with the exact OG as predicted, which will make the beer I intended to make. That's the great thing about making your own, you can do what you wish and what works for you.
How to brew regularly without having a warehouse of beer on hand?
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If that works for you, great. I'd personally consider a 5% beer and a 7% beer two totally different beers. For those of us that use a program to formulate our brews, an accurate efficiency number is necessary. I just got done brewing, and I ended up with the exact OG as predicted, which will make the beer I intended to make. That's the great thing about making your own, you can do what you wish and what works for you.
5 vs 7% well duh, lol. I too get the exact SG as I plan for as well most every time. Why? Because I make my beer the same way every time. My efficiency is what it is I don’t fret over it, I don’t measure it, and again I don’t really care if it is high or low. It is what it is. I could be at 95% or 65%. I could give someone my exact grain bills and SG and they could figure it out. But the actual number doesn't matter; it is all relative.
For newer brewers this should be down the list of important things when looking to make good beer. Case and point are the posts where people are worried about their efficiency and are making average beer or beer they don’t like. You can have the greatest efficiency in the world, or really crappy efficiency and within reason it will not translate into your beer quality. Your system is your system. I focus on:
1) predictable results (follow a consistent procedure),
2)sanitization ( for obvious reasons), and
3) fermentation QC. ( this is where 95% of ‘off’ beer flavors and disappointing results come from)
YMMV
I agree with you. Efficiency is just a calculation of potential gravity vs. attained gravity. If you are taking gravity readings, then you are checking efficiency indirectly. If you gave two people a grain bill and one got 95% and another got 65%, you would have two totally different beers. No, it's not something to fret over, yes it is what is is. But knowing what it is helps a lot. Without knowing your systems efficiency, you can't get predictable results. My original point was, if someone is getting an extremely low efficiency, then something is wrong with their process.
Kind of like MPG. My truck gets 12 MPG, my car gets 40. Both will get me there, and I don't really care how much gas it takes as long as I get there. But if I didn't have a gas gauge (the trucks does not work), how far can I drive before I run out? Knowing one piece of info, which is just a calculation, helps a lot.
So if I want an OG of 1.060 how much malt do I need? Can't answer that unless you know my systems efficiency. Yes it's just a number, but you need to know the number for things to work as planned.
whiskeyjack
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Here are a few things that have made my beer better.
-take meticulous notes. From brewing to tasting. Missed your mash temp by 4 degrees, fix it next time. Notes on how long it took your beer to be in its prime after packaging.
-This one goes with notes and smaller batches, but if you have an overabundance of beer, you may be missing your beers prime drinking time. When I first started I did the "leave it in fermenter for 30 days", I also had way to much beer. So by the time it got drank or partially drank, it was past its prime and I was left with barely hoppy, carmaly apa. I no longer follow the 30 day fermenter recommendation. Usually 7-10 days then keg. Style dictates this but most of my beers are around 1.050. Smaller batches have allowed me to drink beers like pale ales and hefe's when they are supposed to be drank, soon. So if you have that beer that you feel after so long has lost its edge, take note on how long it took to get to that point and brew recipe size to get you near that point, but not over
-Water chemistry is another big key for me that has made my beers better. I feel this is the #1 thing that has made my beer pop. I had everything else down. Mash/fermenter temps, healthy yeast and I felt something was missing. It's so simple I kicking myself for not doing it sooner.
-take meticulous notes. From brewing to tasting. Missed your mash temp by 4 degrees, fix it next time. Notes on how long it took your beer to be in its prime after packaging.
-This one goes with notes and smaller batches, but if you have an overabundance of beer, you may be missing your beers prime drinking time. When I first started I did the "leave it in fermenter for 30 days", I also had way to much beer. So by the time it got drank or partially drank, it was past its prime and I was left with barely hoppy, carmaly apa. I no longer follow the 30 day fermenter recommendation. Usually 7-10 days then keg. Style dictates this but most of my beers are around 1.050. Smaller batches have allowed me to drink beers like pale ales and hefe's when they are supposed to be drank, soon. So if you have that beer that you feel after so long has lost its edge, take note on how long it took to get to that point and brew recipe size to get you near that point, but not over
-Water chemistry is another big key for me that has made my beers better. I feel this is the #1 thing that has made my beer pop. I had everything else down. Mash/fermenter temps, healthy yeast and I felt something was missing. It's so simple I kicking myself for not doing it sooner.
elreplica
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Oh to have such issues...I cannot keep up as I'm my own best customer...end up fermenting Festa brews and buying kegs from microbreweries to augment my cooking. Drinking more couldn't work for me...
I think forcing down beer, one does not even like, is the worst idea ever. If you don't like it, dump it and find out what went wrong. It is not going to be wasted, it is going to be part of the learning process.
We have also to remember that we are talking about alcohol. People die because of developing an addiction to this stuff. So less is definitely more in this case. Stick to high quality, don't drink every day and dump the stuff that went wrong.
I really like the idea of actually celebrating a dumper. It puts the whole thing into the right light.
We have also to remember that we are talking about alcohol. People die because of developing an addiction to this stuff. So less is definitely more in this case. Stick to high quality, don't drink every day and dump the stuff that went wrong.
I really like the idea of actually celebrating a dumper. It puts the whole thing into the right light.
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This sentence makes me think you should have dumped the beer you drank.
I don't get it. Is there maybe a language issue? English is not my native language, maybe I wrote something in a wrong way? Please explain what you mean.
It is sentence structure. In English the words are not in the right order....
Yes, they are in the correct order but word choice makes the point unclear.
Something like "Forcing yourself to drink bad beer is a terrible idea" is more clear, but who cares?
Something like "Forcing yourself to drink bad beer is a terrible idea" is more clear, but who cares?
Thanks for clarifying!
Looks like you have plenty of feedback/advice, but I'll throw mine in.
- Smaller batches. I make 3-gallon partial-extract batches. I used to make 1-gallon batches. I still occasionally make 1 or 2 gallon batches of lagers (small lagering fridge). When you convert from 5-gallons to 3-gallons (or 3.25 gallons, which is what I typically do so I can leave back the trub and hop sludge) pay attention to the percentage of fermentables in your recipe and the OG.
- I have no experience with this, but I'd recommend you keg. I hear that people who keg go through their beer faster.
- Brew beers that other people like so you can share it. Sure, you might like the imperial apricot-and-maple porter that you added some cascade bacon candi sugar to in secondary (which I'm sure will appeal to someone around here), but your friends might like plain porter, or a cream ale, or a light lager.
- Brew strong beers that you don't mind having a warehouse full of. Not exactly what you were going for, I'm guessing. If you brew smaller batches of strong beer (excluding IPAs and American Barleywines for a minute) and you package a *few* bottles intending to age it (label it clearly), maybe you wont mind having a small reserve of beer in the warehouse. Barleywines and doppelbocks are supposed to be really good after a year. I've got some Belgian Strong Ale aging right now that I've had going for over a year since brew day.
- Brew sour beer. Not something you should probably do weekly, but every 6 months or a year brew a sour beer. If you're a sour beer lover (which you might not be) then you probably wont mind having 3-4 carboys of them getting all funky and sour. Its kind of along the lines of my previous recommendation in that it doesn't really solve the problem of going through your pipeline quickly to save on space, it (arguably) just fills your homebrew pipeline with beer so valuable to you that you don't mind allocating some space for it.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
But they are in the right order - it makes perfect sense, in British English at least, although a comma afterwards and optionally a "that" before would clarify "one does not even like" is a subclause.
Thanks mate! Comma positioning is a pain when having a German background. Germans are obsessed with commas and commas are used way more often than in English. On top of that, the rules change all 5 years so even most of the Germans don't know how to use them properly. That's why my comma "guesstimation-work", writing in English, is not as good as it probably should be. I might have a look into a book or two covering this topic.
homebrewer_99
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I'm still trying to figure out how 5 gallons lasts 3-4 months with friends helping?
Mine don't last that long, my wife doesn't drink and I have no friends.
Right, I read "beer one" as "beer #1" so that makes it seem the words were it the wrong order where in actuality a comma would have made it clear.
Maybe I needed a beer to make me read it right!
Maybe I needed a beer to make me read it right!
knotquiteawake
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That was one of my selling points about the kegerator to my wife. "see? I can just have a half a beer"... before dinner, during dinner, after dinner, after the kids are in bed... Before I know it I kicked the keg.
I know some people that will drink anything with alcohol in it so it usually isn’t a problem to get rid of some of my lower quality batches. I hate going through the process of cleaning bottles and filling them to give to someone just so they can get drunk and then most likely they never return my bottles or they bring them back a month later full of mold so it doesn’t bother me to dump some beer. I don’t think the cost of a 5 gallon batch costs much more than a 2.5 gallon batch and it’s about the same amount of work so I just do 5 gallons every time.
Hey now, don't be so hard on yourself! Beer is a great friend to have!
homebrewer_99
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OK, 1 friend... Actually, I do have friends I was only kidding.
I have some bottled beers that are 8+ years old and 20 year old meads.
bronzdragon
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During these last three years (after brewing for 20), I have brewed less and less. Kegs were lasting my wife and I a long time. I was losing interest in a beer before we could finish it. I usually have four on tap at any one time. I still enjoyed brewing, just didn't get to do it enough. So this year I have made the decision to brew 2.5-3 gallon batches instead. I would agree with the others who have said this.
/cheers
/cheers
I thought it made sense even though it was a little off. I wonder what that says about me. Now that you say German I can totally hear a German guy saying it. Like Flula or something haha.
homebrewer_99
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Br3w4u, bis Du ein Deutscher?
For those of you who say efficiency doesn't matter, I will say this. If you want to brew big beers (12% RIS, for example), you better be getting at least 70% on a 6% beer or you'll never be able to make your numbers. Why? Efficiency goes down as you add more grain for any given batch size. So you're going to get worse efficiency with the huge grain bill. Just add more grain? Guess what, you just dropped your efficiency even more. You can get to the point where you can't get there from here without adding DME or something.
So....does it matter whether your getting 78% or 72%? Not really as long as it's consistent. Does it matter whether your getting 70% or 60%? If you want to brew a high gravity beer it most certainly does. If all you're ever going to brew is 4-6% beers, then it is indeed a "don't care".
So....does it matter whether your getting 78% or 72%? Not really as long as it's consistent. Does it matter whether your getting 70% or 60%? If you want to brew a high gravity beer it most certainly does. If all you're ever going to brew is 4-6% beers, then it is indeed a "don't care".
Nein, Ich komme aus America. Ich will mochte Deutschland . I think that’s close. Probably sounds like an American said that Lol.
Most definitely
homebrewer_99
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HAHA! I got it. I'm originally from NJ. I did 2 tours in Germany for a total of 9 years.
Griffin495
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I'll chime in along with the others and say brew smaller batches. What size is up to you. I've got 1G glass carboys and while it generally only nets about 9 bottles, its great for experimental beers. I just brewed a pale ale using my normal grain bill for pale ales and tossed in a bunch of German hops I had laying around from other batches and just targeted the IBUs. Will it be good? Is there such a thing as a German Pale Ale? I don't know, but I'm just out a few dollars in grain and I wasn't doing anything that day anyway.
I've also got a 2G bucket from Lowe's that will get me a 12 pack (1.5G batch).
Two 2.5 Gallon icing buckets that I got from a bakery which will get me an 18 pack (2G batch).
Two 3 gallon glass carboys that will get me 21-22 beers (2.5G batch)
To brew these, I use a 2.25G stock pot and a 5G stock pot and I can brew these on my stove or if the day is nice, get out my propane burner. For the most part, my 10G kettle and 5G fermenters just sit there in a corner in the garage looking sad and lonely.
And I brew every 3-4 weeks. Just did a 2.5G batch of pale ale yesterday and was done and cleaned up by 11.
I've also got a 2G bucket from Lowe's that will get me a 12 pack (1.5G batch).
Two 2.5 Gallon icing buckets that I got from a bakery which will get me an 18 pack (2G batch).
Two 3 gallon glass carboys that will get me 21-22 beers (2.5G batch)
To brew these, I use a 2.25G stock pot and a 5G stock pot and I can brew these on my stove or if the day is nice, get out my propane burner. For the most part, my 10G kettle and 5G fermenters just sit there in a corner in the garage looking sad and lonely.
And I brew every 3-4 weeks. Just did a 2.5G batch of pale ale yesterday and was done and cleaned up by 11.
Thank you for your service.
homebrewer_99
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You're welcome. I did 7 years active and 30 years Civil Service.
homebrewer_99
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I get my small buckets at WallyWorld's bakery (also held icing)...only $1 with lid. I use them to hold my pre-weighed grain for future batches. I just put a label on the lid and stack them up in the corner for when I get ready to brew.
Griffin495
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I got mine at Tom Thumb for free. I also stick my grain in one if I am not brewing immediately.
homebrewer_99
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I thought efficiency was affected by the mash temp and volume of water used. (The grind too, but I'm assuming everyone's grind is consistent to their liking).
I've always use these for my guidelines:
MASH TEMPERATURE:
Low T: 140-150F, for lighter body.
High T: 150-160F for a (fuller) maltier body.
WATER VOLUME:
THIN MASH: 2 qts of water to 1# grain, slower conversion, produces more fermentables and a drier beer.
THICK MASH: Less than 1.25 qts to 1# grain, faster conversion, produces fewer fermentables and a maltier beer.
Mash efficiency really should always be discussed in 2 distinct parts.
1. How much of the starch you convert to soluble sugars (a.k.a conversion efficiency)
2. How much of those soluble sugars you transfer to the boil kettle (a.k.a lauter efficiency)
There is really no reason why you shouldn't be able to obtain near 100% conversion efficiency in a mash. The key factors are:
-Reasonably good crush. A surprisingly large range of crushes will work. Smaller is better up until you have lauter troubles.
-Your grain has to be wet. This means stirring and/or recirculating. Dry grain won't work.
-Mash temp - IMPORTANT: you need to be above the gelatinization temp of the grain you have. This changes yearly with different crop conditions. Normally for barley its in the mid to low 140s, but i've seen it as high as 150F. If you are mashing below this point you will not get the starch into the liquid and it won't be converted.
-Mash rest temps - this has more to do with final attenuation.
-Mash thickness - might change the conversion speed a little bit, but unless you're trying to mash in under 20 minutes the enzymes will have plenty of time. It's more important to hit your pH.
Lauter efficiency is mostly focused on how much of your liquid stays behind. This comes from either grain absorption or equipment losses. If you are fly sparging you should be able to get 95% efficiency with little effort. If you are doing no sparge the best you can do is to reduce dead space (e.g. bottom drain MLT). Grain adsorption is hard to change sort of squeezing, but that's not ideal.
1. How much of the starch you convert to soluble sugars (a.k.a conversion efficiency)
2. How much of those soluble sugars you transfer to the boil kettle (a.k.a lauter efficiency)
There is really no reason why you shouldn't be able to obtain near 100% conversion efficiency in a mash. The key factors are:
-Reasonably good crush. A surprisingly large range of crushes will work. Smaller is better up until you have lauter troubles.
-Your grain has to be wet. This means stirring and/or recirculating. Dry grain won't work.
-Mash temp - IMPORTANT: you need to be above the gelatinization temp of the grain you have. This changes yearly with different crop conditions. Normally for barley its in the mid to low 140s, but i've seen it as high as 150F. If you are mashing below this point you will not get the starch into the liquid and it won't be converted.
-Mash rest temps - this has more to do with final attenuation.
-Mash thickness - might change the conversion speed a little bit, but unless you're trying to mash in under 20 minutes the enzymes will have plenty of time. It's more important to hit your pH.
Lauter efficiency is mostly focused on how much of your liquid stays behind. This comes from either grain absorption or equipment losses. If you are fly sparging you should be able to get 95% efficiency with little effort. If you are doing no sparge the best you can do is to reduce dead space (e.g. bottom drain MLT). Grain adsorption is hard to change sort of squeezing, but that's not ideal.
efficiency is affected by mash temp some. The amount of water alone isn't the factor, it's mash thickness. If you're brewing a high gravity beer, the volume of water doesn't go up proportionally to the amount of grain, so you're essentially forced into a thicker mash and/or a smaller sparge volume if you want the same volume into the kettle. There's some extra water for grain absorption, but not enough to be able to go with the same mash thickness and sparge volume.
So, adding more grain to account for lowered efficiency lowers the efficiency more, meaning that every extra pound of grain lowers the efficiency until you can, potentially, get to the point where you can't realistically mash/sparge with that grain/water volume combination. This is especially true when you start with poor efficiency that forces you to add more extra grain to account for the efficiency drop than someone starting at 70%.
One thing that helps (especially with big stouts) is to plan for extra volume into the kettle and simply boil longer. That way you're not reducing the overall grain/water ratio as much. This is what I did with my big stout. I was getting about 72% with 6.3% IPA's, and got 71% with the huge stout. I did a 3 hour boil with 9 gallons into the kettle to get there though. If I had started at 61% for a 6% IPA, I doubt I'd have been able to get to the 12% with just the grain.
If you go electric you could probably boil in half the time. My 5500W element makes my kettle boil like crazy. I have to turn the power down to 50% once I reach a boil just so that the evaporation rate stays where I want it.
I seen your post about doing 2.5gal batches, but I would suggest 1.5gal to get 12pack. Pick a style or two of beer you like then find know proven recipes from the many on this site and brew them over and over until you can get it right. Takes lots of notes and tweak accordingly.
I did a lot of small batches in the beginning to get the process down and help identify yeast and hops that I liked. Description don't always match everyone taste buds. This is mostly for hops choices but if there are commercial beers you like look at their website to see if they have clues to the ingredients they use. Works for beers you don't like too.
homebrewer_99
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Brak23 said:How do you guys manage to brew so frequently in the early stages? It would be easier to give away a bunch of beer if I loved what I was making, but i'm not ever fully happy and I don't really want to start gifting beer out that I'm not proud of. I know its $30-50 a batch, but do you guys just dump what you don't like? I would love to brew every 6-8 weeks to keep refining my skills but I really don't know the best way to do that without having a warehouse of beer.
How do I brew so frequently? I retired at 55 (it'll be 8 years come June). I can brew any day I want and cost is not an issue. I keep about 300# of assorted grains on hand and a couple dozen yeasts. About half of the are dry.
Most of the time I brew on Sundays while the wife is at church. I haven't brewed in 2 weeks, but I have 7 batches ready to keg and/or bottle, but I'm in no hurry.
Flavored brews (coffee stouts, root beer, etc.) get tapped with "dedicated" picnic taps. To keep flavors separate, Stout has it's own tap as does Root Beer. Only Pale Ales get tapped in the kegerator. I have about 18 cases of German 1/2 liter bottles and racks (plastic cases) I brought back from Germany years ago for Weizens. Over half of them are "flippies". I use wine bottles for ciders. I probably have 150 of them.
I've never done anything except 5 to 6.5 gal batches since I started brewing in 1994.
I've dumped before, but they were infected. I've even dumped beers that have "turned". It's something that doesn't really bother me. It just is. What I do is try to determine why it went bad so I can correct it later.
How do I brew so frequently? I retired at 55 (it'll be 8 years come June). I can brew any day I want and cost is not an issue. I keep about 300# of assorted grains on hand and a couple dozen yeasts. About half of the are dry.
Most of the time I brew on Sundays while the wife is at church. I haven't brewed in 2 weeks, but I have 7 batches ready to keg and/or bottle, but I'm in no hurry.
Flavored brews (coffee stouts, root beer, etc.) get tapped with "dedicated" picnic taps. To keep flavors separate, Stout has it's own tap as does Root Beer. Only Pale Ales get tapped in the kegerator. I have about 18 cases of German 1/2 liter bottles and racks (plastic cases) I brought back from Germany years ago for Weizens. Over half of them are "flippies". I use wine bottles for ciders. I probably have 150 of them.
I've never done anything except 5 to 6.5 gal batches since I started brewing in 1994.
I've dumped before, but they were infected. I've even dumped beers that have "turned". It's something that doesn't really bother me. It just is. What I do is try to determine why it went bad so I can correct it later.
Brak23
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This makes sense. I think the problem I face is that my tastes in beer have changed a lot as I learn to brew over the years, and each time I want to make a completely different style I haven't done before. I've repeated a recipe only once and looking back I think I shot myself in the foot by always trying different styles rather than trying to refine some solid starting points.
Though I must say i just made a recent change in my mashing strategy (finer crush and slower lauter) and my mash efficiency went from 64-65% to 83% on the IPA im brewing. So im super proud of that. But now im going to work on making it consistent with the mash efficiency and work on refining some solid core beers.
One follow up question to your suggestion is scale with equipment. I have a 60 qt mash tun and a 15 gallon brew kettle. Can I do 1.5 gallons in those? I have smaller 4.5 gallon kettle and a 5 gallon mash tun too if needed - just wasn't sure about if it can be too big with little volume.
Scaling is fairly straight forward, just divide maybe subtract a few points from your efficiency as losses add up quick with small batches.
Your 4.5gal kettle is fine for 1.5gal, the 5gal mash tun is a bit big even if you do a full volume mash but may be OK. The 5gal cooler would work for a 2.5/3gal batches but your 4.5gal is too small and your other kettle is too big(may have excessive boil off). I have a small 2gal cooler I use for 1.5gal batches and boil in a 5gal kettle. 3gal batches I do/did in a 5gal cooler and boil in a 8gal kettle.
A refractometer is helpful to determine full conversion of starches. Looking for full conversion made the biggest difference for me in efficiency consistency. A refractometer also save beers when looking for final gravity.
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