How much yeast do I have in this jar?

[ILMSTMF]

Estimated, of course.

Of the two pictures that follow, the jar on the left is what I'm asking about. That jar contains 1318 harvested from the cake of a chinook IPA I brewed. In the photos, that is 21 days from harvest.

The next photo is what I'm asking about. That same jar had part of the yeast split for a vitality starter. The process - decant beer to sanitized jar leaving enough beer behind to swirl up into a big slurry. I regret that I didn't take note of how many mL of liquid was added to my starter. Here's what's left:

I'm trying to figure out if that's just krauszen on top of the beer or if it's, top to bottom, yeast, beer, trub. And...an estimated cell count. Harvested 3 months ago. These are quart jars. I think.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BigJoeBrew]

IMO I don't believe that is krausen on the top, Also looks as if about 1/2 inch of yeast layer above trub that may have yeast inner mixed. I would say swirled up or just pour half the jar as is added to a starter for a day or so should give you plenty for 5 gallons.

Estimated, of course.

Of the two pictures that follow, the jar on the left is what I'm asking about. That jar contains 1318 harvested from the cake of a chinook IPA I brewed. In the photos, that is 21 days from harvest.

View attachment 586906



View attachment 586907

The next photo is what I'm asking about. That same jar had part of the yeast split for a vitality starter. The process - decant beer to sanitized jar leaving enough beer behind to swirl up into a big slurry. I regret that I didn't take note of how many mL of liquid was added to my starter. Here's what's left:


View attachment 586909


I'm trying to figure out if that's just krauszen on top of the beer or if it's, top to bottom, yeast, beer, trub. And...an estimated cell count. Harvested 3 months ago. These are quart jars. I think.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I would say swirled up or just pour half the jar as is added to a starter for a day or so should give you plenty for 5 gallons.

I did a little bit of rough math on what I've got in there. Estimated 12oz; maybe 350ml of packed yeast. What I'm prob going to do is swirl it all up then add to a vitality starter of about 1L, same day as brew.
The only fear I have is that I've got way more yeast in there then I need to ferment a 1064 OG batch. Don't want to over pitch, hence my question on how much of this is actually yeast. I won't be harvesting any of the yeast from the starter as I still have this strain in other forms (lower generation in the jar to the right and another jar, not pictured, harvested from overbuilt starter at generation 0).

Thanks!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Don't want to over pitch

Why not?

 

[ILMSTMF]

Revising that - don't want to over pitch TOO much. If I end up with 1 trillion cells or something absurd, would that not be detrimental somehow?

 

[RPh_Guy]

would that not be detrimental somehow?

That's what I was asking you
Exactly how do live healthy yeast harm the beer?

Anecdotally I've "overpitched" many times since I make 1 gal batches for testing recipes. Never noticed any ill effect.

Others on the forum claim overpitching is impossible at the homebrew level.
I think if you can eat your beer with a fork you probably went too far, otherwise you're probably overthinking it.

Estimates for cell content of slurry vary widely. Short of doing cell counts yourself, you'll have to settle for a wild guess. Pitching rate calculators have a slurry option. Go with that and call it a day

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/07/ye...-vs-overpitch-in-a-lager-exbeeriment-results/

 

[ILMSTMF]

I suppose the thought was that too many cells and a smaller ratio of consumable sugars would cause the yeast to get lazy? Literally pulling that out of my ass though. Maybe that's what that itch was...

But yup. Screw it. Gonna swirl it up and put in a small starter to wake them cells up.
Thanks!

 

[ILMSTMF]

Update. I still plan to pitch the whole damn thing into a starter but I am considering doing that prior to brew day. I.E. a typical, few days long starter with a cold crash, decant, and pitch slurry.

Worried about explosive results though. Have just acquired Fermcap-S and will probably put a few drops into the starter after adding the yeast to the wort. Stupid to pitch the full contents of the jar into this? Thanks!

 

[RPh_Guy]

5 gallon ale?
Just add like ~100-150mL of the jar slurry to your starter.
This way the cells in your starter will be fresh when it's finished.

I really like vitality starters. Stir plate for 4 hours in 500 mL and pitch the whole thing.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Thanks @RPh_Guy! But what of the layer above the beer? Yeast or discard?
Yes, 5 gallons finished in keg, target.

 

[RPh_Guy]

If you're cold crashing the starter, decant most of the beer.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Right... but in the jar now... the layer above the beer, decant that AND the beer before adding to starter wort ? Or try to take what's on the top layer and what's below the beer in the jar into the starter wort?
Thanks!

 

[RPh_Guy]

The jars only have 2 layers, the beer and the yeast
Above the beer it's just krausen ring stuck to the side of the jar.

Decant most of the beer. Leave some to mix with the yeast so it's easier to pour.

 

[hopjuice_71]

I think I agree with RPh_Guy - swirl everything to resuspend (even the stuff on top), then add anywhere from 100-200 mls to your vitality starter. Vitality starters are the bomb.

 

[hopjuice_71]

I'm too slow, but we are pretty close. You have a lot of yeast there and the vitality starter will get whatever yeast you use raring to go. I think you would have a hard time going wrong here. 1318 is a beast as well.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Agreed, it'll be fine as long as a reasonable amount of yeast somehow makes its way into the wort!
RDWHAHB!

 

[ILMSTMF]

Now we're talking.

Part of my plan here was to save time on brew day by NOT doing vitality in favor of traditional starter.

Will swirl it up and pitch 200ml to 600ml of starter wort on brew morning. Rock and roll.

 

[hopjuice_71]

Now we're talking.

Part of my plan here was to save time on brew day by NOT doing vitality in favor of traditional starter.

Will swirl it up and pitch 200ml to 600ml of starter wort on brew morning. Rock and roll.

Cool. Depending on your system, you may not even have to have a separate starter wort. I use a counter flow chiller. During summer the ground water temp isn't low enough to get the wort temp right down to pitching temp. So, I steal a bit of the wort during chilling, get the vitality starter going, and finish the wort chilling in my fermentation chamber (a chest freezer). By the time the final chilling is done, maybe one to two hours, the vitality starter is practically leaping out of the flask and ready to be pitched. The full brew is usually totally rocking by the next morning.

 

[Iseneye]

Cool. Depending on your system, you may not even have to have a separate starter wort. I use a counter flow chiller. During summer the ground water temp isn't low enough to get the wort temp right down to pitching temp. So, I steal a bit of the wort during chilling, get the vitality starter going, and finish the wort chilling in my fermentation chamber (a chest freezer). By the time the final chilling is done, maybe one to two hours, the vitality starter is practically leaping out of the flask and ready to be pitched. The full brew is usually totally rocking by the next morning.

I do similar but results in more time. I take 1-2 litres of the wort from the mash tun while draining then boil it on stovetop for a few minutes, chill then pitch in that. That way the vitality starter is going before the main boil is finished so get an extra hour or so.