How much creative liberty do you take on other recipes?

[Wakadaka]

When you guys brew up a recipe that you find on here or in a book or whatever, how much of it do you claim as your own? Do you rename it? Enter it into competitions?

I have been brewing recipes from online here, with minor substitutions, mostly hops just because I have 3 varieties in lb bags. I wouldn't consider them original or anything, I don't name them (well I give them a number, and if somebody asks I say that is a pale ale), and I feel like entering it into a competition would be somewhere a long infringement on intellectual rights.

It somewhat comes down to a question as to whether homebrewing is process or recipe driven, but what are your thoughts on this?

 

[chip82]

I feel that the naming of the brews is in good fun, whether you decide to stick to it the given name or not.

But personally, I haven't named my brews yet. Maybe the first all grain I make, I will name.

 

[jd3]

I give credit to the recipe that I used as a base. But regardless of recipe, rarely are two homebrews "identical".

 

[jsweet]

I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Even if you don't make one (conscious) modification, it's still basically "your" beer.

When you make a grilled cheese sandwich, do you worry that you are infringing the guy who invented it? heh...

 

[Wakadaka]

Personal use I don't see any problems. Even if I tell my friends its my secret recipe, its not really going to make a difference. If its posted on the internet it is expected other people will snatch it.

But what about contests? Or even if you ordered a kit from an online HBS, brewed it and then entered it into a contest? Would you do it? Consider it ethical?

 

[houndsbreath]

Above posters are right; that's YOUR brew! I typically make a small adjustment to suit my taste (add hops, longer boil, different yeast) however I rarely stay within BJCP guidelines. I name all batches I think are good, but I also have a pale ale called "Pale Ale II" which I am progressively altering until it's just right. Also agree that naming them is part of the fun; again, personalize them.

 

[McGarnigle]

But what about contests? Or even if you ordered a kit from an online HBS, brewed it and then entered it into a contest? Would you do it? Consider it ethical?

We've argued this a good bit in the past, and most of us think it's ethical. Contests aren't about the recipes, they're about the brewing (unless the contest specifies otherwise). The truth is, most "original" recipes probably aren't very original, unless someone's going way off the beaten path.

 

[jfowler1]

Personally, I like the idea of keeping the original recipe name, especially if I did everything in my power to brew it the way the creator intended it to be brewed.

Here is an example.

Mike McDole's JBA. I followed the numbers and ingredients exactly, but I opted for my house yeast strain over WLP001 and chose to FWH instead of mash-hop. I plan to enter it in our state comp, and I will call it Janet's Brown Ale. All I really did was change a couple process nuances to fit my system, but my goal was to brew the beer the way Mike intended it to be brewed. For that reason, I want to pay respect to the recipe I am trying to emulate so I will keep the name.

But I don't think you would be doing anything wrong by re-naming a recipe you copied. It will be your's, because no two brewers follow the exact same process. Different process = different beers.

Joe

 

[Daybis]

If I'm brewing someone else's recipe, I usually keep the name. However, if I make modifications, I usually rename it.

 

[Synovia]

But what about contests? Or even if you ordered a kit from an online HBS, brewed it and then entered it into a contest? Would you do it? Consider it ethical?

There's a reason you can't copywrite a recipe. The execution is just as important as the ingredients.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

You can copyright a recipe but it is often not a good idea. Take Coke for example. Coke has a secret recipe. For them to get a copyright on it they have to divulge all the secrets of the recipe. They then get copyright protection for a number of years before it becomes public domain. They could fight it and try to renew/retain the copyright but if they lose their recipe is out there for anyone who wants it.

 

[jsweet]

You can copyright a recipe but it is often not a good idea. Take Coke for example. Coke has a secret recipe. For them to get a copyright on it they have to divulge all the secrets of the recipe. They then get copyright protection for a number of years before it becomes public domain. They could fight it and try to renew/retain the copyright but if they lose their recipe is out there for anyone who wants it.

More to the point, the copyright on a recipe (or collection of recipes; how protectable an individual recipe is is somewhat of a gray area) only protects the written embodiment of that recipe, but the result of the recipe. I could take a copyrighted recipe book, open a restaurant that only served dishes from that, made exactly to the original instructions, and legally I'd be 100% in the clear. (Maybe not ethically though...)

A process can be patented and protected that way, but only if it's truly a unique and non-obvious innovation - in practice no recipe really qualifies.

This is all separate from the ethical question, of course, but it's worth noting that the law doesn't have the slightest complaint with it.

 

[Pappers_]

Homebrew competitions don't judge recipes, they compare beers. All beer recipes are derivative.

 

[kingmatt]

I don't think you should give a second thought to entering someone else's recipe/a kit into a competition, especially if you are 'tweaking' it.

When it comes down to it, most style recipes are very similar at their base and the tweaking of the hops, schedule, crystal, yeast strain etc are what make them unique and dynamic.

Even if you brew a recipe/kit exactly as it is written, your own techniques (sanitation, system mods, fermentation temps etc) will greatly impact the finished product.

I would bet any money that two people could brew the exact same recipe, enter it into competition and get completely different scores and feedback. Actually, that would be an interesting experiment...

 

[Yooper]

I only know of one or two homebrewers that don't share their recipes. If it's shared, then the recipe creator doesn't care what you do with it. Brewing is about process as well as ingredients. Recipe is a big part, though- balance is the key to a great beer.

Only one time, I was irritated when someone posted "their" recipe without giving me any credit at all. Not that I wanted credit! But the person PM'd me about ten times- "Could you change your DFH clone recipe to a PM for me? With XXX amount of grain? And could you rework the hopping for me, because I have XXX hops? Thanks!" I did that. And then recipe showed up here as "So-and-So's IPA" exactly how I wrote it for him, and he claimed it was his best beer ever.

Normally I don't think anything of what people say or do with advice, but that irritated me!

 

[jsweet]

I only know of one or two homebrewers that don't share their recipes. If it's shared, then the recipe creator doesn't care what you do with it. Brewing is about process as well as ingredients. Recipe is a big part, though- balance is the key to a great beer.

Only one time, I was irritated when someone posted "their" recipe without giving me any credit at all. Not that I wanted credit! But the person PM'd me about ten times- "Could you change your DFH clone recipe to a PM for me? With XXX amount of grain? And could you rework the hopping for me, because I have XXX hops? Thanks!" I did that. And then recipe showed up here as "So-and-So's IPA" exactly how I wrote it for him, and he claimed it was his best beer ever.

Normally I don't think anything of what people say or do with advice, but that irritated me!

Well, I'm serving your DFH 60 clone (extract version) at a party on July 3rd, and I'm giving it my own name. Full disclosure But if anybody asks, I'll call it "Yooper's DFH 60 clone".

 

[TheDom]

For me, posting a recipe as yours on a public forum is claiming a certain degree of credit for it, and taking credit for someone else's work (as in Yooper's example) is lame. A simple "Thanks Yoop" would have gone a long way.

For competitions, it seems to me that it is perfectly cool to take credit for the end result since you brwed that winning beer. However, I would never dream of winning a competition with Yooper's DFH clone, then coming back on HBT and re-posting her recipe as "TheDom's Best Award-Winning IPA Ever!" That is her recipe, I'd be kinda lame to take credit for it.

 

[Scruffy1207]

This thread has answered a few questions and encouraged me to enter into some contests. I figure I should wait til I go AG though.

 

[jsweet]

For competitions, it seems to me that it is perfectly cool to take credit for the end result since you brwed that winning beer. However, I would never dream of winning a competition with Yooper's DFH clone, then coming back on HBT and re-posting her recipe as "TheDom's Best Award-Winning IPA Ever!" That is her recipe, I'd be kinda lame to take credit for it.

Bingo. The right thing to do would be to come back to HBT and say, "I won an award with Yooper's DFH clone!"

I think I just clarified something in my head: One can (and should!) freely use others' recipes, and can then claim credit for the resulting beer, but one should not ever then claim credit for the recipe. Credit for the beer goes to the brewer (with perhaps a nod to the recipe author if appropriate, but often not necessary); credit for the recipe goes to the original author.

 

[Pappers_]

This thread has answered a few questions and encouraged me to enter into some contests. I figure I should wait til I go AG though.

FWIW, there are lots of examples of people entering extract beers in competitions and getting great scores. If you want feedback, go ahead and enter.

 

[nefarious_1_]

For me, posting a recipe as yours on a public forum is claiming a certain degree of credit for it, and taking credit for someone else's work (as in Yooper's example) is lame. A simple "Thanks Yoop" would have gone a long way.

For competitions, it seems to me that it is perfectly cool to take credit for the end result since you brwed that winning beer. However, I would never dream of winning a competition with Yooper's DFH clone, then coming back on HBT and re-posting her recipe as "TheDom's Best Award-Winning IPA Ever!" That is her recipe, I'd be kinda lame to take credit for it.

I have to agree here. Granted, process has a lot to do with the outcome of the beer, but so does the recipe! If it wasn't for the recipe, you wouldn't have the beer at all!

Taking someone else's recipe they have worked on with certain ingredient additions and details to add charcater (not just a standard IPA or Pale Ale, for example,) brewing it, then claiming the beer as yours just seems rather lousy to me. If it weren't for that person's recipe, you'd have nothing.

If, however, you brew the recipe once, notice there are a few things you don't like and change it (beyone simple modifications for AA differences, etc.,) then yes it is yours. But don't go around claiming someone's original recipe is yours just because you brewed it!

 

[Houblon]

Taking someone else's recipe they have worked on adding character with certain ingredient additions and details (not just a standard IPA or Pale Ale, for example,) brewing it, then claiming the beer as yours just seems rather lousy to me. If it weren't for that person's recipe, you'd have nothing.
<snipped>
But don't go around claiming someone's original recipe is yours just because you brewed it!

This happened to me more than once, guy brewed a recipe of mine and passed it off as his- even kept the same name. His buddy emailed me to ask if it was mine as the name sounded just like mine ...


The one time that really pissed me off was a HB who was using my pics/recipe of houblon as his own. Even when I brought this up with the website owner they defend the poster, at that point I closed my photobucket account.

Funny but he kept claiming the pics were stolen from his account up to the very end.

So yeah its kinda cheesy to take credit for other work but it happens, oh well.



I say if your brewing someone's original recipe than you should give credit like this>
Antwerp >> via- SA Brewer
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19038#p836374

 

[Skarekrough]

I rarely name recipes and if it's a clone I almost always make it a point to refer to it as such.

I guess it comes down to what each persons belief as to what ownership consists of.

For me I would need for things to be pretty dramatically different in order to claim it was my own. But then, that's just me. I don't brew for any other reason than my own personal pleasure and have never entered into competition.

 

[houndsbreath]

Synovia got this right. Most of us have experienced how execution can alter a recipe.

 

[cadarnell]

I've started naming my beers ... I usually get the recipes here there and everywhere, as I dont really know how to creat one that is totally my own yet ... I like the movie "this is spinal tap" so I name beers after that .. I have a "mime is money" pale .. and a 'David St. Hubbins ... "I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."... Blonde Ale' .. and a "these amps go to eleven" cream ale .. right now .. cheers

 

[Phunhog]

Better yet.....I wonder many small professional breweries have taken "award winning recipes" and used them to sell beer. Does a small brewery have to "re-invent the wheel" to make a pale ale? They could pretty much blantantly rip off Sierra Nevada and call it their own. Of course I think we all agree that the recipe is only one part of making great beer....the skill of the brewer IMO is the largest part.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I'll keep the recipe name (or a descriptor, like "Jamil's APA") at first, but once I start modifying the recipe to dial it in to where I want it to be, I consider it "mine" and will give it a new name.

 

[beaksnbeer]

A recipe is a recipe 15 years ago 10 homebrewers all brewed the same recipe with all the same ingredients, water and technique being the only variable. 3 beers out of 10 ended with same OG/FG hoppiness/maltiness varied as well. Everyone knows that water quality, mash temps/time boil/time/temps and fermenting temps all change a brew. So that being said No one can CLAIM their recipe. Yooper basically made some A$$HOLES recipe not giving her credit shows an inept jerk. If you can't give credit where credit is due you are a LOSER!!!!!!!!............my.02........Sorry for the rant but somethings piss me off..

 

[rico567]

The first time I brew a new recipe, I always follow it exactly. Always. The next time, who knows? Plus, recipes have a way of turning out different for all sorts of reasons.....like when those Cascades you thought you had turn out to be Centennial, etc.