How dumb are your state/province's liquor laws?

[HopHeadGrady]

Ontario Canada is a joke. I'll just say that alcohol is legal.... Barely. Talk to any brew pub owner and you will be mad real quick with just how strict conditions are. Prices... Well It's just under 50 bucks for a case of decent beer. 15 bucks a six for a craft beer is avg. You buy from them or go to Quebec. LCBO says they offer the best prices possible and allowing corner stores to sell isn't needed. I say that if they are indeed getting us the best possible price, then what's wrong with a little competition... Hehe

Majority of people here are into making cheap booze, not brewing quality.

Ther will never be a happy hr here or anything like that. ever. This is what happens when Mormons start your province..... Idiots.

 

[mcbaumannerb]

There is no doubt that in the Philly area we have an awesome selection of great beers. I hope the three tier system finally gets the overhaul it needs, but I'm pessimistic. Too many vested interests that donate too much to the politicos. We can hope though

 

[Hogarthe]

I have a question.... is it true that in Texas you have to have a license to buy alcohol? one of my friends went there a couple years ago, and that's what he told me. I've never heard of anywhere that had an alcohol buying license, just one if you were selling alcohol.

In TN, the laws aren't too bad. but they vary a bit place to place. some cities or counties have blue laws, others don't. You can't buy wine or liquor except in a liquor store, and some places outlaw liqour stores. so if you live in one of those places, you have to drive to the next town to get wine or spirits, but can get all the beer you want at the grocery store or gas station. Beer or other "malt beverage" like those fruit drinks is capped at 6%, except at a liqour store. at least 6 % is a reasonable number though, as most beer is probably in that range. I don't see how other states limit the beer to lower than that and make the brewers have to make a seperate product to sell there.
every year the legislature votes down a wine in grocery store bill. eventually it will pass, I think....

homebrewing is legal, and doesn't have any restrictions, as far as I know.

 

[Yooper]

I have a question.... is it true that in Texas you have to have a license to buy alcohol? one of my friends went there a couple years ago, and that's what he told me. I've never heard of anywhere that had an alcohol buying license, just one if you were selling alcohol.

No, of course not. You can buy beer and wine in the grocery store (or gas station) and you can buy booze/wine/beer at any liquor store.

 

[thadius856]

Wow. California doesn't have any of these weird laws that I know of.

Gas stations, corner stores, grocery stores, etc. all sell beer, liquor and wine every day. I'm pretty sure there's no time limit on when you can buy it either. Last call at bars is always no later than 2 am.

The only thing I can think of that comes close is strip clubs. You can have a bikini bar that serves, or a full nude club that doesn't. Usually door admission at a full nude club gets you a wrist bad good for two... cans of soda. -.-

 

[Onihige]

I'm not part of any American State, but oh well. Silly is silly.

I think I've touched the subject somewhere else, so I'll just explain breifly. State owned liquor store can sell anything above 3.5% ABV, the rest have to be content with a lower ABV or have a serving permit, such as bars and resturants.

The state owned liquor stores are also closed on sundays, but not for religious reasons - they used to be closed on saturdays too, but that didn't last. I don't really mind it, while it is stupid and pointless - you just have to stock up, make your own damn beer or go to a regular store and get 3.5% ABV beer.

Oh, yeah. I had almost forgotten, at my local grocery store (I live in the middle of nowhere) you can buy folk beer (that's what we call 3.5% beer) versions of Brew Dog beer. I think it's the Punk IPA and Blonde Lager. Which is... surreal.

 

[schooner427]

Yea your right. In Pa they have opened up beer sales to 2 grocery stores. Tried to buy a sampler from Wegmans and they wouldn't sell it to me because my underage daughter was in line with me. I was speechless. Haven't been in a Wegmans since.

 

[drainbamage]

Wow, after reading through this I feel lucky not to have anything too crazy going on in my area, although KY varies a lot from county to county. We're finally starting to get over Sunday sales restrictions, mostly because the bourbon distilleries were getting screwed on their weekend tasting sessions and gift shop sales, and they have a lot of lobbying power in Frankfort. We also don't have the high-ABV restrictions that Ohio has had, and you can find decent craft beer in grocery stores and some gas stations.

The one downside is that we still have a lot of "dry" counties. I live in an area with a strong German/Irish Catholic heritage, so booze has always been pretty well accepted. However, if you're heading further south than Lexington or Richmond for camping or whatever, you'd better stock up ahead of time (or else know the sheriff/preacher in charge of the local moonshine ring ).

 

[uncommonsense]

The laws in IL are probly the same as anywhere but a lot of liquor stores will card everyone with your or they wont sell to you. Its dumb especially if someone happens to forget there wallet. Im told they will even card you just walking around the store and escort all of your group out if one person is under age and not your child.

 

[petey_c]

No, of course not. You can buy beer and wine in the grocery store (or gas station) and you can buy booze/wine/beer at any liquor store.

Yoop, I remember going to some restaurant/bars in the DFW area (1990's -ish) and in order to drink you had to a member of a "club". I think it was called the "uni-card." This allowed you to drink at any place that served alcohol (Chi-Chi's, etc.) around town. I believe they've since done away with it. I think that might have been what hogarthe was referring to.

 

[Brewtah]

Utah does have some wacky laws, but much has changed last 10 years. I miss the mini-bottle. The state did not want big liquor bottles in bars, so they would make your drink with an entire mini. You could also bring your own bottle and pour your own. It was great. In the 40's and 50's bars had lockers so you could leave your bottle there.

The wall came around in the 80's. Then went away, now it's back. No more private clubs, or buying memberships anymore. Rumor has it wine will be in the grocery store soon. I doubt it, but you never know. I always have hope.

The great thing is you can still bring your own wine to a restaurant. Small cork charge, still huge money saver. I would rather deal with Utah laws then some of the southern state laws.

 

[gstrawn]

Utah does have some wacky laws, but much has changed last 10 years. I miss the mini-bottle. The state did not want big liquor bottles in bars, so they would make your drink with an entire mini. You could also bring your own bottle and pour your own. It was great. In the 40's and 50's bars had lockers so you could leave your bottle there.

The wall came around in the 80's. Then went away, now it's back. No more private clubs, or buying memberships anymore. Rumor has it wine will be in the grocery store soon. I doubt it, but you never know. I always have hope.

The great thing is you can still bring your own wine to a restaurant. Small cork charge, still huge money saver. I would rather deal with Utah laws then some of the southern state laws.

Southern states laws? Any examples. Ga has none of the laws mentioned above, only restriction is not purchase after 11:30. Groceries store can't sell liquor. That's all

 

[thadius856]

I seem to remember NC being no liquor on Sunday, no liquor in grocery stores, no 24/7 liquor stores.

I feel like I remember not being able to buy lottery tickets in California after certain hours. But Google isn't turning anything up.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

In North Carolina, all distilled spirits are sold through the ABC store. Beer is capped at 15% ABV, most(all?) counties have no sales of beer/wine before noon on Sunday. ABC is closed Sundays. Some counties are still completely dry. Some have a wet city within a dry county.

Up until 2005 or so, beer was capped at 6% in NC. I actually recently met one of the gentlemen involved with this movement. They raised and spent 100k to hire a lobbyist to fight for this change.

As for liquor drinkers... sucks for them. Glad I don't mess with the firewater very often. I still have a bottle of vodka in my pantry from like 4 years ago.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I seem to remember NC being no liquor on Sunday, no liquor in grocery stores, no 24/7 liquor stores.

I feel like I remember not being able to buy lottery tickets in California after certain hours. But Google isn't turning anything up.

NC recently accepted the lottery. They call it the "NC educational lottery" because it takes the devil out of gambling.

Still no liquor on Sundays or 24 hr liquor stores. Only ABC state run stores.

 

[Brewtah]

Southern states laws? Any examples. Ga has none of the laws mentioned above, only restriction is not purchase after 11:30. Groceries store can't sell liquor. That's all

I remember being in Dallas and not being able to buy beer after 10 pm. Uh...Is Franklin still dry? Plus all of the partially dry counties and dry communities in Georgia. Texas, Alabama, North Carolina, Kentucky all have dry and partially dry counties. You don't see many in the western US.

 

[thadius856]

NC recently accepted the lottery. They call it the "NC educational lottery" because it takes the devil out of gambling.

Still no liquor on Sundays or 24 hr liquor stores. Only ABC state run stores.

Yeah. I remember the lottery thing.

A holier-than-thou type I knew got addicted to the scratchers. Every time she'd lose, she's swear them off as "the devil". Sure enough, she'd be right back to it next payday, playing herself broke over the few days after, then complaining she was the devil made her broke until the next pay day...

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Yeah. I remember the lottery thing.

A holier-than-thou type I knew got addicted to the scratchers. Every time she'd lose, she's swear them off as "the devil". Sure enough, she'd be right back to it next payday, playing herself broke over the few days after, then complaining she was the devil made her broke until the next pay day...

It's easier to blame others for your own faults and "the devil" is usually the fall guy.

These Aunt Jemima characters are usually the first to accredit Jesus for their good luck.

Got a speeding ticket on your way home? It was the devil pushing your foot down. Found a $100 bill the same day in the parking lot - now that was Jesus.

 

[Funnage]

These Aunt Jemima characters are usually the first to accredit Jesus for their good luck.

Got a speeding ticket on your way home? It was the devil pushing your foot down. Found a $100 bill the same day in the parking lot - now that was Jesus.

I'm just jealous of Jesus's homebrewing skills. All he needs is a couple jugs of water.

 

[thadius856]

Wouldn't that be homevintning skills?

 

[kombat]

The only thing I can think of that comes close is strip clubs. You can have a bikini bar that serves, or a full nude club that doesn't. Usually door admission at a full nude club gets you a wrist bad good for two... cans of soda. -.-

I've heard other states have similar laws. That blows my mind.

I live across the river from Quebec, where the drinking age is 18, and all "strip clubs" are full-nude, with alcohol. There's no such thing as an "alcohol-free" strip club, or a "bikini" strip club. It's all nude, all booze.

No-touching lap dances are $10/song, or for $20, you're permitted to touch the girl (with the exception of between the legs). Lap dances can happen either at your table, or in a private cubicle in back (the "champagne rooms").

 

[thadius856]

I've heard other states have similar laws. That blows my mind.

I live across the river from Quebec, where the drinking age is 18, and all "strip clubs" are full-nude, with alcohol. There's no such thing as an "alcohol-free" strip club, or a "bikini" strip club. It's all nude, all booze.

No-touching lap dances are $10/song, or for $20, you're permitted to touch the girl (with the exception of between the legs). Lap dances can happen either at your table, or in a private cubicle in back (the "champagne rooms").

This blows my mind. All clubs I've been to are strictly a "sit on your hands" operation.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I've heard other states have similar laws. That blows my mind.

I live across the river from Quebec, where the drinking age is 18, and all "strip clubs" are full-nude, with alcohol. There's no such thing as an "alcohol-free" strip club, or a "bikini" strip club. It's all nude, all booze.

No-touching lap dances are $10/song, or for $20, you're permitted to touch the girl (with the exception of between the legs). Lap dances can happen either at your table, or in a private cubicle in back (the "champagne rooms").

Where I'm from any touching will result in being promptly escorted out the door by some guy named big Ed who has more muscle than brains. The worst part is we still pay $20. $10 would be a deal for a lap dance!

 

[454k30]

My Navy career has brought me through a couple states. In Colorado the only thing you could buy in the grocery store was 3.2%, and it seemed to me like you could only get the big 3 (miller, bud, coors). To get real beer and anything else you had to go to a liquor store. I believe those are all independently owned.

Washington state finally changed their archaic rules, which someone already mentioned. Taxes on hard liquor are high though; something like 25%.

I just got into Maryland so this what I know so far. You can only buy from liquor stores, except some grocery stores which have a liquor store inside of them; those are treated like seperate stores though so you have to make a seperate purchase at a different counter. Liquor stores are really well stocked but they all seem to have the exact same selection.

We have been lucky though as I can always go on base and buy tax free hooch at competitive prices, even on Sunday. Our package stores (class 6) even carry some really good beer, wine and booze. The selection is really determined by whomever is in charge of that particular class 6.

 

[Texastrooper]

In Texas we have the usual annoying dry (no alcohol), semi dry (beer and wine) and wet areas (everything including liquor). Up to this day and after 12 years in Texas I still have not understood how it exactly works.... lol
Plus no alcohol sales on Sunday before noon. No open container in the car but then we have drive through liquor stores.....
And then there are these stupid laws for breweries and brew pubs. Breweries are not allowed to sell directly to the public and brew pubs are not allowed to sell to wholesalers or liquor stores.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

In Texas we have the usual annoying dry (no alcohol), semi dry (beer and wine) and wet areas (everything including liquor). Up to this day and after 12 years in Texas I still have not understood how it exactly works.... lol
Plus no alcohol sales on Sunday before noon. No open container in the car but then we have drive through liquor stores.....
And then there are these stupid laws for breweries and brew pubs. Breweries are not allowed to sell directly to the public and brew pubs are not allowed to sell to wholesalers or liquor stores.

Texas may have some crazy laws on alcohol but y'all at least have your gun laws right.

 

[Brewsit]

We have been lucky though as I can always go on base and buy tax free hooch at competitive prices, even on Sunday. Our package stores (class 6) even carry some really good beer, wine and booze. The selection is really determined by whomever is in charge of that particular class 6.

I second this statement. It's nice to have a Federal Installation with a 24/7 Class 6. Stocking up last minute at 3AM on Christmas morning is what America is all about!

It took me a while to get used to Texas laws, the first time I ever saw a chain across the beer section in a gas station confused me more than anything.

I also couldn't get used to Maryland's liquor laws, even more strange to me than Texas. Texas seems to be derived from southern bible-belt type thinking, I can't wrap my head around East coast reasoning.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Wow. California doesn't have any of these weird laws that I know of.

Gas stations, corner stores, grocery stores, etc. all sell beer, liquor and wine every day. I'm pretty sure there's no time limit on when you can buy it either. Last call at bars is always no later than 2 am...

All Alcohol sales stop at 2am state wide. I can not remember if it is 6am or 7 am sales resume. ABC sets the number of alcohol sale licenses and there is a very lucrative black market to purchase (sorry; transfer) a license. Last I knew Wine in church is legal for underage kids to sip (at least catholic church).

 

[thadius856]

We have been lucky though as I can always go on base and buy tax free hooch at competitive prices, even on Sunday. Our package stores (class 6) even carry some really good beer, wine and booze. The selection is really determined by whomever is in charge of that particular class 6.

My class 6 section of the BX is terrible last I checked. Maybe half a dozen craft brews, and not great prices either. Then again, it's a small rural base.

Also, mine's not 24/7. Opens at 8 am. By the time 5pm closing rolls around, the base is a ghost town except for the Commissary.

 

[Brewsit]

My class 6 section of the BX is terrible last I checked. Maybe half a dozen craft brews, and not great prices either. Then again, it's a small rural base.

Also, mine's not 24/7. Opens at 8 am. By the time 5pm closing rolls around, the base is a ghost town except for the Commissary.

Sounds like you are describing Beale AFB. If so, I am sorry for your loss.

 

[thadius856]

Sounds like you are describing Beale AFB. If so, I am sorry for your loss.

On. The. Nose.

Will be at Travis this week. Will have to see what I'm missing.

 

[Brewsit]

On. The. Nose.

Will be at Travis this week. Will have to see what I'm missing.

Travis is like a metropolis, comparatively. I never went to the Class 6, but I know that they at least carry things people would buy at the BX.

 

[Hogarthe]

Yoop, I remember going to some restaurant/bars in the DFW area (1990's -ish) and in order to drink you had to a member of a "club". I think it was called the "uni-card." This allowed you to drink at any place that served alcohol (Chi-Chi's, etc.) around town. I believe they've since done away with it. I think that might have been what hogarthe was referring to.

yeah, that was it. My freind had said it was needed anywhere in Texas, but I don't know if that was true, or just the town/county he was in. this was maybe 4-5 years ago.

other things about TN laws... you can have an open container of alcohol in a vehicle, as long as you are not the one driving. you can not drink while riding an inner tube down a river. for some reason, that is considered boating while intoxicated. (how a n innertube is a boat is beyond me). I just read an article in the paper that said TN had the highest alcohol tax in the country, and that neighboring states are trying to lure our microbreweries away by offering them incentives. I don't know if the part about alcohol tax being the highest in the country is accurate though. it seems the prices are about the same when I visit family in VA, which I would think wouldn't be true if TN's tax was so much higher.

 

[Photopilot]

I live in Utah, and the Mormons have done a pretty good job of f***ing up everything related to alcohol.

I don't think you even touched on how stupid the Utard politics are and how badly they screw themselves to keep us from corrupting their state.

While I don't live there anymore, when I was there they had a budget crisis. Since the states budget was affected by the bad economy they had to cut back on all departments in the state, including the state run liquor stores which is the only place you can buy liquor, wine and real beer. They started closing stores and cutting back hours. Of all the departments in the state, which is a growing source of income, DMV, schools, state offices? No it was the liquor stores. They figured we drinkers would just rearrange our schedule to get our booze but as a result of the changed hours the income for liquor sales went down. I was under the impression that they reversed the cut back on budget cuts for the liquor stores, but maybe they just cut their children's education budget instead.

My other favorite crazy rule was no liquor sales on any holiday the state can think of. One time I went to a liquor store on a holiday obscure enough to be closed but not to give the unioned employees the day off, so there were employees sitting around getting paid, with the doors locked, but no sales of alcohol that day.

California law I hate. You can only fill a growler with a specific brewers silk screened beer. They call it a labeling protection issue. I call it BS, its not like I can resell the growler or put a wheat beer in a growler and tell someone it is an IIPA. With at least 10 Brew Pubs within 10 miles of my home, I am not going to buy 10 growlers to be able to take some home.

 

[Photopilot]

In Wyoming some cities had open container laws, others did not. When leaving the town of Jackson to head to Teton Village (the ski area), everyone would crack a beer at the Y-junction, meaning everyone. The driver could not be drunk but could be drinking.

"If you hold this bee for me I'd be glad to get you my license and registration officer."


The only wierd law I can think of Wyoming was bars had to shut down at 10 on Sunday. The Sunday routine was the stage coach bar in Wilson was named "Church on Sundays" Wyoming also had drive up liquor store windows.:rockin:


Louisiana has drive up daquiri bars, you did have to put the straw in yourself though.

 

[thadius856]

California law I hate. You can only fill a growler with a specific brewers silk screened beer. They call it a labeling protection issue. I call it BS, its not like I can resell the growler or put a wheat beer in a growler and tell someone it is an IIPA. With at least 10 Brew Pubs within 10 miles of my home, I am not going to buy 10 growlers to be able to take some home.

This is true, except the silkscreening. I've not had the issues you've had. Here's the letter of the law:

California Business and Professions Code § 25200. Label; Contents.
All beer sold in this State shall have a label affixed to the package or container thereof, upon which shall appear the true and correct name and address of the manufacturer of the beer, and also the true and correct name of the bottler of the beer if other than the manufacturer. No manufacturer, importer, or wholesaler of beer shall use a container or carton as a package or container of a beer other than such beer as is manufactured by the manufacturer whose name or brand of beer appears upon the container or carton, or use as a package or container of a beer a container or carton which bears the name of a manufacturer of beer or the brand of any beer other than those of the manufacturer of the beer contained in the container or carton.

I've only been to a few brewpubs, but the ones I have visited with a growler place a vinyl label on your unlabeled growler and then fill. When you finish the growler, just peel off the vinyl label and take it elsewhere. This skirts the law, but doesn't violate it or its intent.

One time the pub was out of labels. I was pretty disappointed. They bottle all of their brews like 20 feet from the counter. How do they run out of labels? I ended up having a lightbulb moment. I bought a bomber of the same beer, then let the bottle sit in a glass of ice water for a few minutes. The foiled label peeled right off, and I stuck it to the growler.

Can your brewpubs not be bothered to stock a roll of sticky labels?

 

[thadius856]

Just found this posted over at BA. It's fresh. Only from yesterday.

I saw this came up in the Societe tasting room thread, but I figured I'd give it the full treatment.

The CA ABC held a workshop yesterday for Southern California craft brewers, and the head of the ABC, Jacob Appelsmith, addressed a couple of specific issues in his introduction. One of those was growlers.

He said breweries (type 23, i.e. Small Beer Manufacturers) can fill any sealable vessel as a growler as long as they can cover up any previous label and convey the mandatory label information (name of brewery, city and state where it was brewed, name of beer, and ABV if the beer is over 5.7%. I believe the surgeon's general warning is a TTB requirement). Breweries must get label approval for however they choose to convey that information, even if it's just a sharpie on a piece of duct tape (they showed us several examples of label approvals that were just handwritten name tags from Office Depot). He also said you could theoretically have a common, blank growler (except for the surgeon's general warning, I imagine), if you could legibly fit all the mandatory information on a screw cap. A growler coozie with the mandatory info would also work if it covered everything.

There was lots of murmuring and confused looks in the room, and a couple of people asked questions to clarify. He admitted that there had been confusion within the ABC about it, and said local offices should now be on the same page. (Quite a few brewers told me afterward that they were specifically instructed by local ABC officers that they could only fill their own growlers.)

I talked to Tom McCormick, head of the CA Craft Brewers Association, and he said the ABC issued a reinterpretation of the code about 6 months ago that spelled this out. He said he's going to make an effort to make sure everyone knows about it.

This is obviously welcome news. As for Modern Times, I'm still planning to offer the standard 64oz. glass growler with our logo for interested parties, but I'm going to look into the screwcap idea and stickers.

Cheers!

 

[daksin]

Just found this posted over at BA. It's fresh. Only from yesterday.

I was at that workshop. Lots of good information. One thing to note is that there is a BIG disconnect between ABC at the State and the local ABC enforcement agents. San Diego enforcement is some of the toughest on growler fills. It's going to be a good long while before you can start filling up non-brewery growlers and cornies in CA.

 

[thadius856]

Been filling growlers in NorCal for some time now.

Never thought of trying to fill a corny...

 

[oujens]

No, of course not. You can buy beer and wine in the grocery store (or gas station) and you can buy booze/wine/beer at any liquor store.

In Texas this is True. Now to add to it, finding a liquor store can be a challenge. I live in McKinney, which is about 30 miles north of downtown Dallas for anybody that does not know. My area and surrounding areas do not allow liquor stores. Only Beer and wine can be sold at a convenient store or grocery store.I have to drive 20 miles south, north, west, or east if I want liquor. Luckily I work in downtown Dallas and am near a couple stores with huge beer, wine and liquor selections. Beer selection in my area are decent at a couple stores, so at least I got that going for me. Another weird thing is you can be surrounded by wet areas and be in a dry suburb in Dallas. Drive a mile north, can't buy beer, drive a mile south can buy beer. Doesn't make sense.

Now Oklahoma.....Born and raised there. Only beer at 3.2% can be sold in grocery stores. anything above that has to be sold at a liquor store and cannot be refrigerated. Wine is only to be sold in a liquor store as well. All liquor stores are closed Sunday, so BMC owns that day if you need beer. Absolutely ridiculous. There have been some craft breweries open too, and they get limited to 6 days of beer sales in stores. I haven't been to one, but I know being Oklahoma there is no way they are allowed to sell beer on premise. And they want to know why people think Oklahoma is boring and behind the times. Don't get me wrong, I love OK, just had a better opportunity in TX. Truth is there are some good things happening in Oklahoma, they just need to change the way they think when it comes to some of this.