How bad is it?

[MTtoAZ]

I received my water report back from Ward a few weeks ago and am just now getting to take a look. I did put the initial numbers in Bru'n Water and it comes back imbalanced. The water is from the Western Valley Salt River Aquifer and what comes straight from the tap. It actually tastes pretty damn good so there doesn't seem to be anything off on that. Is my water total crap?

 

[ajdelange]

For the most part, yes. High sodium and almost 4 mEq/L alkalinity are the dead horses in the room. You might be able to dump a good part of the alkalinity by lime treatment after calcium supplementation but the relatively high levels of sulfate and chloride don't leave you much headroom there unless you are OK with sulfates in the hundreds (which some people are).

The water isn't unbalanced (it cannot be). The report is. 10.2 vs 10.8 is a largeish imbalance which would complicate treatment planning somewhat.

 

[MTtoAZ]

That's what I figured. I'm curious what the local brewery that is on the same water supply does. Perhaps I need to look at an RO system if it is that broken. I've got a plethora of standard brewing salts but not really sure on the application to adjust what I have.

As to the imbalanced reporting I asked Ward Labs if they could explain number discrepancy.

Thank you for taking a look though.

 

[bob1852]

I hope they're not brewing with that water as is....but it wouldn't surprise me if they are...

 

[paperairplane]

I really think most small breweries worry far less about water chemistry than some homebrewers.

Unless you have chloramine treated water RO is very likely overkill. Get an undersink filter with a good charcoal filter. Run the water at a slow rate.

I've tried a lot of beers, I don't think I've ever thought - gee this seems like the sodium is a few ppm high for this style...

 

[FatDragon]

I don't think I've ever thought - gee this seems like the sodium is a few ppm high for this style...

I guess that just gose to show that everyone has different tolerances for salty flavors in their beer.

...and without contributing anything of substance to the discussion, I'll see myself out...

 

[mabrungard]

Yes, that water will make beer. As paperairplane points out, there is a lot of worry about water in the homebrewing community. However, it seems that the brewers (pro and home) that make great beer, actually do worry about and work with their water. Having been to literally thousands of breweries that don't worry about their water, I'm well aware of how poor their beers are. Water is the number 1 ingredient in beer and although it generally offers little to flavor the beer, it can drastically affect the flavor or malt, hops, and yeast. Don't ignore it.

The OP's water is highly mineralized. It is going to be tougher to make some styles with that water. Most importantly, neutralizing the high alkalinity is a critical requirement. There won't be much good beer made if that factor isn't corrected.

 

[ajdelange]

As to the imbalanced reporting I asked Ward Labs if they could explain number discrepancy.

The explanation is quite simple. The balance numbers are, respectively, the total cation charges and anion charges on the ions analyzed. An ion not measured does not get counted. There shouldn't be too many of these. Another source is, of course, measurement error.

 

[ajdelange]

I really think most small breweries worry far less about water chemistry than some homebrewers.

True and the result is often evident in the beers.

Unless you have chloramine treated water RO is very likely overkill.

If you have chlorine or chloramine in your mains water it must be removed before RO or the membrane(s) will be poisoned by it. Most RO systems contain a carbon filter to insure chlorine/chloramine are at safe levels before the feed gets to the membrane but the choice to go RO or not has nothing to do with whether the water contains chloramine or not. There are many advantages to an RO system even for water with much lower mineral content than OP's. Foremost among these are elimination in effects of seasonal or other variations in source water quality and complete control over the brewing water. The better commercial operations and the best home brewers have moved to RO in droves (systems have become less expensive).

Get an undersink filter with a good charcoal filter. Run the water at a slow rate.

These have no effect on the mineral quality of the water. They will remove chlorine and chloramine though the former is more easily removed by letting the water stand over night and the latter with bisulfite.

I've tried a lot of beers, I don't think I've ever thought - gee this seems like the sodium is a few ppm high for this style...

Stylistic ions (those that contribute directly to flavor) are only half the story. Control of mash pH is the other half. One can, of course, with RO and a few common salts in hand set both flavor ion concentration and control pH. Yes, the OP water can be used to brew certain styles of beer but the range is restricted to those that match, more or less, this water. That is, of course, how beer styles originated but today with a relatively modest investment in hardware we can brew any beer any where.

 

[MTtoAZ]

The OP's water is highly mineralized. It is going to be tougher to make some styles with that water. Most importantly, neutralizing the high alkalinity is a critical requirement. There won't be much good beer made if that factor isn't corrected.

So there is some hope then of perhaps have a range of beer styles that will work.

What is your advice to help move my issues back to a balance? I'm in the dark here and feel like I'm drinking from a fire hose here more so than in other subjects in my brewing education.

 

[ajdelange]

A solution (not the global solution) is offered at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460. In essence it says throw away your water and synthesize the water you need from RO water and common salts. More sophisticated solutions build on that solution by using more exact computation of required salts based on more specific descriptions of the beer to be brewed and the base water does not need to be ion free.

Balance is only at issue if water with appreciable ion content is used as imbalance in a report indicates an error in the reported concentration of one or more ions or the presence of ion(s) not reported on. Any water you prepare will be balanced and you cannot match a target profile by adding salts to water whose correct ion contents are not known. This is another advantage of RO as the base water.

 

[MTtoAZ]

Thank you. I'll take a read and start looking to an RO solution to my problem here in the future. Otherwise it looks like I will be stuck with only dark beers and possibly then dark beers of a suspect quality level.

 

[mabrungard]

English and American ales might work adequately with that water. Pick up some phosphoric acid and learn to properly dose it in both the mashing and sparging waters. It won't be great, but it should be better than doing nothing and trying to brew with that water.

 

[MTtoAZ]

Martin,

Thank you. Is the Phosphoric recommended due to possible flavor issues with Lactic 88?

 

[mabrungard]

Martin,

Thank you. Is the Phosphoric recommended due to possible flavor issues with Lactic 88?

Yes, the alkalinity level is high enough to create flavor impacts if lactic is used.