Hot Break??

[BrooZer]

When I brewed my first batch I was worried because I had no hot break/boil overs.
I beleive I was told that is because with extract the hot break has already occured.

Now, today i boiled a 1/2 cup of dry extract to make a yeast starter and I had a ton of activity and even a boil over. The boil was MUCH more vigorous than when I boil my 3 gallons of wort.

My concern is that maybe I am not getting a vigorous enough boil from my gas stove when doing the 3 gallon wort boil (i am using a 22-qt pot). I got zero hot break in my 1st 2 brews.

Could it be a lack of stove heat?

Would it help to heat the pot on 2 burners at once (although it would only cover half of each burner)?

 

[Willsellout]

I didn't have a hot break until I started brewing with an outdoor burner. My electric stove just couldn't get a good boil going. I was unprepared for the hot and cold break I had on my last batch..I lost quite a bit of wort because of it too.


Dan

 

[the_bird]

You won't get as much with extract, anyway - most of the break material is removed during the manufacturing process.

 

[Willsellout]

Yeah and with my last batch I did a partial mash with 4 lbs of grains. I had a ton of debris...it was cool to finally see what everyone was talking about.


Dan

 

[BrooZer]

How come I got so much making my starter??

Could there be a problem with the things I mentioned above?

 

[BrooZer]

I didn't have a hot break until I started brewing with an outdoor burner. My electric stove just couldn't get a good boil going. I was unprepared for the hot and cold break I had on my last batch..I lost quite a bit of wort because of it too.


Dan

Did you brew an extract when you got that hot break? Did it change the taste of your brews?

 

[Willsellout]

Did you brew an extract when you got that hot break? Did it change the taste of your brews?

I used about 7 lbs of LME and did a partial mash of 4 lbs of grains. I can say it definitely changed the taste of my brew. I tasted it last night and it is phenominal...my previous beers are like water compared to this one, honestly.


Dan

 

[TheJadedDog]

I have found that when I boil more than 2 gallons on my gas stove I don't get enough of a boil for a hot break but if I boil 2 gallons or less I do. Chances are the smaller boil volume in your starter got to a more vigorous boil than your 3 gallon boils are.

It's not that a hot break doesn't occur with extract, it just isn't as important. If I were you I would try reducing your boil volumes and just add more top-off liquid if you want a more vigorous boil.

 

[Willsellout]

I have found that when I boil more than 2 gallons on my gas stove I don't get enough of a boil for a hot break but if I boil 2 gallons or less I do. Chances are the smaller boil volume in your starter got to a more vigorous boil than your 3 gallon boils are.

It's not that a hot break doesn't occur with extract, it just isn't as important. If I were you I would try reducing your boil volumes and just add more top-off liquid if you want a more vigorous boil.

Or do full boils:rockin:


Dan

 

[BrooZer]

I have found that when I boil more than 2 gallons on my gas stove I don't get enough of a boil for a hot break but if I boil 2 gallons or less I do. Chances are the smaller boil volume in your starter got to a more vigorous boil than your 3 gallon boils are.

It's not that a hot break doesn't occur with extract, it just isn't as important. If I were you I would try reducing your boil volumes and just add more top-off liquid if you want a more vigorous boil.

Which would be more beneficial, a higher boil volume, or achieving a hot break?

 

[Yooper]

A good rolling boil is good for releasing the hops' oils. I'd boil as much as you can, at a good rolling boil. The difference between boiling 2.5 gallons and 3 gallons really would be negligible. You get better hops utilization with lower gravity, so a smaller boil (that actually comes to a rolling boil) with late extract addition would be what I would do.

So, if you can boil 2 gallons, or 3 gallons, it doesn't really matter that much. I always got a hot break in extracts, even though you aren't "supposed" to, I guess.

 

[mrb]

How thick does the hot break have to be??? I definitely get a thick layer of bubbley/scum - but no boil over. Maybe I watch it tooooooo closely.

 

[Yooper]

The "hot break" is when that big thick bubbly scum suddenly disappears. Like when you cook spaghetti- you get a foamy head for a while, then it "breaks" up. This is when the proteins get too heavy to float on top because they coagulate, and drop back into the liquid. Then, the risk of boil overs is pretty much over. There isn't any more foam on top.

I wait for the hot break to add my first hops additions, and then start the timing. 60 minutes from the hot break, if it's a 60 minute boil. That's when I walk away and do other things, since I don't have to watch it so closely any more.

 

[BrooZer]

The "hot break" is when that big thick bubbly scum suddenly disappears. Like when you cook spaghetti- you get a foamy head for a while, then it "breaks" up. This is when the proteins get too heavy to float on top because they coagulate, and drop back into the liquid. Then, the risk of boil overs is pretty much over. There isn't any more foam on top.

I wait for the hot break to add my first hops additions, and then start the timing. 60 minutes from the hot break, if it's a 60 minute boil. That's when I walk away and do other things, since I don't have to watch it so closely any more.

Oh, I always thought that the hot break was the foam boiling up. I dont even get the foam when I do my boils.

Yooper, are you saying it would NOT be worth it for me to do a 2 gallon boil instead of 3?

 

[mew]

I never get much foam because of my wimpy stove. This may be why I don't always get the expected bitterness from my hops.

 

[CiscoKid]

The "hot break" is when that big thick bubbly scum suddenly disappears. Like when you cook spaghetti- you get a foamy head for a while, then it "breaks" up. This is when the proteins get too heavy to float on top because they coagulate, and drop back into the liquid. Then, the risk of boil overs is pretty much over. There isn't any more foam on top.

And here I was thinking it was the bubbling foam. Doh. You know, that black, glass-top frigidare electric stove in my kitchen sure looks nice, but it doesn't work out real well at boiling large quantities of water. I miss having a gas stove. I'll have to try boiling two gallons of water instead of 2.5 in the 12qt stock pot next time and see if it makes a difference. Or insulate the pot.

 

[yeoldebrewer]

Another angle--If your stove doesn't crank out enough heat for anything but top foam, is skimming the foam worthwhile?

I do see a definite cold break in the sampling tube for taking an SG reading. At least I think it is.

 

[Superman3278]

Hot break is used to extract oils from hops when performing extact receipes. What the instructions dont say is to pasturize your fermentables for a specific length of time and in a second pot, for your hops for bitterness and fragreance.

As I perform in my trade, the aromatics or flavors should be cared for separately from pre-prepared batch ingreadiants.

If i was to make chili from a partial scratch recepie, my onions, bell peppers and tomatoes would be cooked to a release point before added to a base sauce. To summerize, my aromatics, in this case would be my hops and or any additive flavor introductions, would be prepared separately from my malt base.

I have always ejoyed a good recipie, but they are kept to a dummies point of view for ease of comunicating a basic standard.

You dont need to boil hops and surgars together to combine the two. Combining the pre-preared surgars for color and flavor with attenuation need not be combined with a hops boil. Simply boil your hops seperatly while pasturizing your fermentables too ensure a clean brew. Add your hops boil to your your fermentable, after hops schedule is completed, batch then tranfer to fermentaion equiptment and top off with clean cold water.

I garuntee you will find this to be a cleaner "extract" brew than you have previosley enjoyed.

Cheers,

Chef

 

[GloHoppa]

it is definitely much better to achieve a more vigorous boil and add more top off in order to have a solid hot break. Bittering hop alpha isomerization is pretty key as well. Unfortunately hop utilization is also diminished by smaller volume boils so really the only reason you would want to get a smaller boil is to have a good hot break. Keep in mind this will also affect your SRM/EBC and typically make your beer darker than it should be..

Personally I would much rather have a vigorous boil than a decent boil with less top off water...

 

[The Bone2]

just boil the hops separately, using the same timing as you would with your fermentables?

Boiling hops: 60 minutes (fermentables are boiling concurently)
Flavor hops: 15 minutes

???

Do you strain the hops prior to addition to the fermentables?

 

[Brew-Happy]

just boil the hops separately, using the same timing as you would with your fermentables?

Boiling hops: 60 minutes (fermentables are boiling concurently)
Flavor hops: 15 minutes

???

Do you strain the hops prior to addition to the fermentables?

I want to bump this question as I had the same idea. I will be doing 4gal batches.
I have two pots (3gal and 2gal). So would it work to boil the hops in water alone while steeping the grains in the other pot? Then add the extract to the steeping grains water (after grain removal). Do the hops addition times as normal, then combine both pots of cooled liquids to the fermenter. Finally top off to desired final volume.

I don't see why this wouldn't work plus it would cut the boil time down with concurrent boiling.

Thoughts?
Edit: if I do the extract and steeping grain boil earlier, I could put the pot in to the fridge or ice bath to start the cooling process.