Horrible funk in Belgian with 1214

[cubbies]

I've been brewing for nearly 3 years, and I rarely have problems, and when I do, I can pretty easily pin point what I did that made it that way. So, back in early August I brewed a Belgian with Pilsner malt, aromatic malt, sugar, and saaz. It wasn't out of this world...1.074 or something like that. 1L starter a couple of days in advance. The one weird thing that did happen is that after 24 hours there were no visible signs of fermentation. I know, I know all about the sometimes it can take 72 hours for fermentation to start. However, in my system I always get some signs of fermentation at 4 hours and I am full blown fermenting by 24 hours. To not see anything at 24 hours is very odd for my system. The next day on my way home I stopped at the brewstore and grabbed another smackpack of 1214 and let it warm in the car and then smacked it when I got home. I went to pitch it a couple of hours later and I noticed fermentation had started. Probably should have checked that before I smacked the pack, but oh well, what was done was done, so I pitched it anyways. Turns out 1214 is notorious for being a slow starter, should have done my homework. At any rate, I am rambling, and I don't see how pitching more yeast could have caused this.

This beer is borderline awful. It has a funk like I have never tasted. The only way I could describe it is it tastes like feet. Just straight funky. I don't have my notes in front of me, but this beer was in primary for 3-4 weeks and then spent a good amount of time in secondary too. And at this point the beer is nearly 4 months old. Anything that was going to age out, I would imagine would have aged out by now. The only saving grace is that I brewed a very light blonde for the BMC drinking crowd at a party I had and blending the two makes them both drinkable where I wouldn't want to drink either on there own.

So, that was a big mess of rambling (I tend to do that), but anyone have any ideas what could cause this kind of funk? I didn't see any visible signs of infection, and nothing that fermented in that fermenter previously or since has come out funky. Fermentation temps were in the mid to low 60's and constant. I have to imagine I pitched enough yeast with the 1L starter and then the additional smack pack. I was well within the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. I just don't know.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

You still greatly underpitched but if this is your SOP and you haven't had problems like this before then that seems to discount that as the problem.

By 'smackpack' do you mean Activator pack or Propagator pack? Even if you made a starter with 2 Activator packs you'd still need ~2.35L of starter (non stir plate).

How long did you boil? I don't associate DMS with 'feet' but...could that be it?

EDIT: is it possible the smackpack was very low viability? This would make the starter even less. For example, if you had low viability yeast and made a 1L starter then that STILL may be less than a full, 100% viable smackpack.

 

[lowlife]

edit................

 

[PseudoChef]

SCA hit it, I think. Not a large enough starter with yeast that may have been quite old to begin with.

 

[cubbies]

Maybe it was just a factor of underpitching. It is my standard to pitch like that but a) my beers are rarely over 1.070 and b) if 1214 is that slow of a starter then maybe it takes longer for the little guys to reproduce. And even more so if that particular pack was low viability. I guess I am probably just tasting the nastiness of Belgian yeast struggling. Lesson learned.

Oh and yes, by smack pack I am talking about the Wyeast Activator packs.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

You might try the Mr Malty (JamilZ) pitch rate calculator. It's not exact because we never really know exactly how many healthy cells we start with but it'll get you close enough.

 

[maida7]

did you boil with the lid on? If so then it's probably DMS

 

[cubbies]

did you boil with the lid on? If so then it's probably DMS

A) no, DMS does not taste like funk to me. It might not taste good, but it doesn't taste like straight funk.

and b) if I boiled with the lid on, I would have to imagine I would have discovered the off flavor before 3 years.

 

[cubbies]

You might try the Mr Malty (JamilZ) pitch rate calculator. It's not exact because we never really know exactly how many healthy cells we start with but it'll get you close enough.

I should have known to do that actually. The vast majority of beers I make are in the 1.045-1.060 range and a 1L starter with one smack pack of yeast is plenty. Never had a problem with yeast before. I should have known that adding nearly 20 points was going to require a larger yeast colony. I guess I learned my lesson the hard way

Thanks for the help.

 

[sockmerchant]

I thought i'd revive this one.

Did this issue resolve itself? I'm having this same problem at the moment

 

[sockmerchant]

In case anyone stumbles across this thread, I can confirm that cold crashing solves this issue. This yeast just doesnt like to flocculate and has quite a strong taste/aroma. Harvesting this yeast from the primary after 2 weeks gives you a much more flocculant yeast (at least what I have found)

 

[cubbies]

I don't really remember, but I don't think so. I think I just blended it until it was gone. I think the problem was not pitching enough yeast

 

[sockmerchant]

Bummer

For me I was just having issues with getting it to flocculate. Cold crashing sorted it out

 

[TarheelBrew13]

I just don't see how under pitching would give you the flavor of feet. All under pitching should do is increase ester production and from what I understand you didn't even under pitch much if any. According to the Wyeast interview I watched at on the Northern Brewer website a 2 liter starter would double the number of cells in the sample. So from this, we have about 1.5 packs of yeast. I know Mr.Malty says you need a 3.89 liter starter for this beer but I don't really put too much faith in that calculator anyway. Still on top of the 1.5 packs (1 liter starter) the op pitched to start he added another pack. That's about 2.5 packs and Mr. Malty says you need 2.8.

I intentionally under pitched a Belgian blonde with this yeast and got fantastic results. Tons of dark dried fruit flavors. I don't know what the problem with your particular beer was but I find it hard to believe it was under pitching. I'm much more inclined to believe that this was from too much yeast in solution causing the off flavors but then its also hard to believe that there was a lot of yeast in solution after 4 months of aging unless you did something intentionally. I have had some trouble in the past with bad candi sugar and wonder if that could have caused it. I made a Belgian porter that was absolutely horrible as a result of too much over caramelized sugar. Still drank it though.

 

[Komodo]

I agree tarheel. My opionion is that underpitch of not so healthy yeast allowed something lse to get start in there before the yeast. The yeast alone wouldnt create feet flavors.