Hornindal Kveik is blowing my mind

[Schlenkerla]

What mullet said!

You can boost the ester production by underpitching massively (one teaspoon of slurry on five gallons) and also fermenting it really hot, around 100f (38c).

I did it with voss and it worked.

Thanks Miraculix & @mullet6577...

Supposedly one can help the formation with esters by open fermentation. The logic is that the air lock back pressure creates a CO2 blanket. If you open it up at high krausen the co2 will flash off and not inhibit esters.

I bought this stuff in January. Now wondering if I need to break out the brew belt. My place of fermentation is cold for this strain.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks Miraculix & @mullet6577...

Supposedly one can help the formation with esters by open fermentation. The logic is that the air lock back pressure creates a CO2 blanket. If you open it up at high krausen the co2 will flash off and not inhibit esters.

I bought this stuff in January. Now wondering if I need to break out the brew belt. My place of fermentation is cold for this strain.

If you already got one, use it! Trying in addition to ferment it open would be very interesting as well.

And really underpitch this strain HARD. Just like I said.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Kveik is typically (possibly always) POF-

Yep - there's some debate as to whether to call the lack of phenolics a feature of kveiks by definition. The recent Preiss et al paper found that the only POF+ strains they found were the one strain they tested from each of the Muri and Simonaitis multistrains, which are probably weird enough to not be classified as true kveik from a biological POV

The original kveik seems to have been formed by a hybridisation between a kolsch-like strain and something unknown, presumably a local Scandinavian yeast.

 

[Tarpon87]

@Miraculix Did the grassyness from your APA go away after a bit of time? Do you prefer Voss over Hornidal for APA/IPA style beers?

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix Did the grassyness from your APA go away after a bit of time? Do you prefer Voss over Hornidal for APA/IPA style beers?

I can confirm that the grassyness went away. The tartness went also into an acceptable range and I am now facing a nice apa with pretty pronounced kveik flavour.
I made an ipa once with an original kveik I got from Norway, not an isolated strain but the real deal from the village brewer, and that one tasted pretty similar to the tyb voss strain. It had a distinctive taste.

I do not know about hornindal, I only brewed with tyb voss and the original kveik from Norway, so I cannot say if I'd prefer hornindal over voss, sry.

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix Did the grassyness from your APA go away after a bit of time? Do you prefer Voss over Hornidal for APA/IPA style beers?

One more thing, Voss and also the original Kveik I tried seem to mute hop aroma a little bit, or maybe they are overpowering it with their own intense Kveik, Citrus-ish type of aroma. This is not a bad thing, as one could brew a very tasty IPA or APA with it using only bittering additions and no Aroma Hops at all. I do not know if Hornindal is behaving the same way. The best about this Kveik aroma is that it does not fade with time, like hop aroma does. I had Kveik after a year and the aroma was still 100% there.

 

[drez77]

Yeah I’d say you’ll drop another 4 points

In the end it dropped about 10 more to 1.010. Guess mine was just a slow mover. On hops now and plan to taste this weekend. Hydro sample was promising.

 

[Dgallo]

In the end it dropped about 10 more to 1.010. Guess mine was just a slow mover. On hops now and plan to taste this weekend. Hydro sample was promising.

I’m glad it finished out for you how you were hoping!

 

[Dory Rules]

Has anyone tried this yeast with a nut brown ale?

 

[Julian Høstan Urrea]

Has anyone tried this yeast with a nut brown ale?

Ive got the same question. Was thinking about trying a muntons nut brown ale kit with this yeast just to save some time. It's not allgrain but should give me a heads-up for the real deal.

 

[14thstreet]

No brown ale, but a milk stout (lactose). I'm not relaying a few details but my heavy 25% roasted grain bill (mix of brown and black malt) was supplemented with a "high" dose of ~30g/L lactose at kegging. I compared US-05/Wyeast 1056 with Hornindal and the kveik greatly smoothed over the roast/acridity and lactose sweetness whereas the neutral American yeast was sharper contrast of flavors. I preferred the Hornindal version but both need more sampling to even out biases.

 

[shoreman]

Has anyone tried this yeast with a nut brown ale?

If you are going for a certain style, you have to think about flavor. This yeast is super user friendly but throws off some citrus and pineapple at higher temps. Works great if you are looking for those flavors in your beer.

If you are just looking for a quick turnaround "beer" with this yeast, I wouldn't go for a style. I would just brew up some ingredients and see what happens.

If you want to make a "brown" ale with this, I'd lean more towards and American Brown hoppy ale with some "C" hops.

 

[Dory Rules]

Not that interested in a specific style - just thinking a nice nut brown with some citrus notes would be tasty!

 

[hezagenius]

Here's my NEIPA with Hornindal. 8oz of Citra and 8oz of Galaxy. Lots of peach in the aroma. Not a ton of citrus. It came out very smooth and basically no bitterness. I fermented at 85F for 7 days before crashing. It finished at 1.0095 but you wouldn't be able to tell from the mouthfeel. Hops were used in a low-temp whirlpool and post-fermentation dry hop. No boil hops and no biotransformation addition hops. Count me as a fan of this yeast!

 

[Julian Høstan Urrea]

Here's my NEIPA with Hornindal. 8oz of Citra and 8oz of Galaxy. Lots of peach in the aroma. Not a ton of citrus. It came out very smooth and basically no bitterness. I fermented at 85F for 7 days before crashing. It finished at 1.0095 but you wouldn't be able to tell from the mouthfeel. Hops were used in a low-temp whirlpool and post-fermentation dry hop. No boil hops and no biotransformation addition hops. Count me as a fan of this yeast!

Looks amazing!

 

[505-Brewer]

Did an APA with Hornindal 2 days ago and a Farmhouse Pale today. Fast starting yeast even w under pitch. Not getting alot of yeast esters but i think the finishing hops ate probably masking it. Fermenting the APA at 98F and 85F (split batch) and the farmhouse at 85F (other portion got Bring on Da Funk)

Curious to see how this turns out.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I brewed a DIPA consisting of Pilsner, flaked oats, flaked wheat, and a little carapils. Starting gravity was 1.076 and final gravity was 1.014. Hops were citra:mosaic:el dorado:galaxy in a 3:2:2:1 ratio. 16 ounces total in a 5 gallon batch. 8 ounces in the whirloool starting at 180 and then the other 8 ounces towards the tail end of active fermentation. I pitched the hornindal at room temp and did absolutely nothing to it while it was fermenting. The fish tank strip thermometer on the side of the fermenter read right around 75 for the majority of time while it was bubbling away. It finished in about 3.5 days and I wasted no time transferring it into the keg. I was pretty excited about the " lack of clean up time " this yeast needs so I figured I'd give it a go. Had it kegged on day 4, set the psi to 30 for 24 hours then turned it down to 12 for a few days. I took my first sample exactly 6 days after Brewday and it was pretty green but 100% drinkable. 2 days later and it was tasting great with a noticeable improvement over the first sample. As I type this right now I'm 11 days post brew day and I honestly can't really see how it could get any better. It's a damn good neipa. There is a very noticeable melon/berry flavor along with some sweet candy flavors that I would typically suspect are from the el dorado and mosaic hops....but it's not quite the same as what I've had before. I've used all of these hops before but never quite had such a fresh melon/berry thing going on. It's hard to say if it's from the hornindal or not but the yeast is the only thing that's different than what I usually do. And just to give a little background I have about 20 brews under my belt, all of them neipas. I've used London ale 3, Conan, 644, so5 and so4, etc...I'm definitely going to continue to play with this yeast and see if I can get it up around 90..prob purchase a fermwrap. I really like the idea of being able to turn these beers around so quickly. I'm used to having my iPas ready around day 21-24, but with this yeast day 10 seems to be very realistic. Also, please forgive my lack of beer photography skills. I can never seem to take a photo that really captures what the beer looks like in person. Cheers!

 

[SanPancho]

So has anybody else gotten the milky caramel thing? Has happened to me twice now. No citrus at all.

I thought it was the golden promise in the bill, but reviewing my notes it wasn’t in both beers. But both had a weird profile that definitely could be caramel.

I typically underpitch around 90-95 and keep it above 80-85.

 

[505-Brewer]

Those that are pitching hops during fermentation are adding them hot like at 98F? So its a hop stand in the fermenter
Any grassiness from “dry hopping this warm”

I think i get some of that caramel flavor but hard to say as ive only pulled a sample from the carboy.
Hornindal is a blend so is it showing up more with re-pitching? If so i might go back to Voss or plan using it in darker beers where that flavor may play better.

Ferment at 98 is fruity and more vibrant than the one at 85, by far. Only 1/1000 lower in gravity but yeast floc’d faster too.

Ive added the dry hops at low 70s while cooling to 65F over 2 days and will either hop again or cold crash and keg soon. So far so good.

Farmhouse w Hornindal will get dry hopped tomorrow or so. Seems weird adding hops while the beer is so warm.

 

[shoreman]

So has anybody else gotten the milky caramel thing? Has happened to me twice now. No citrus at all.

I thought it was the golden promise in the bill, but reviewing my notes it wasn’t in both beers. But both had a weird profile that definitely could be caramel.

I typically underpitch around 90-95 and keep it above 80-85.

Did you keep the temp steady? I’ve been hearing that this yeast does not like dramatic swings in temp while fermenting.

 

[SanPancho]

Off top of my head i wanna say it was like 93 pitch and then held around 86-88. Not much of a swing given its wide temp range.

 

[isomerization]

So has anybody else gotten the milky caramel thing? Has happened to me twice now. No citrus at all.

I thought it was the golden promise in the bill, but reviewing my notes it wasn’t in both beers. But both had a weird profile that definitely could be caramel.

I typically underpitch around 90-95 and keep it above 80-85.

I’ve used it 3 times:
1st gen starter in a BRUT IPA at 93F (fantastic)
2nd gen starter in a White Stout at 85F (overwhelming caramel, but could be recipe driven?)
2nd gen starter in a RIS at 85F (very clean fermentation profile but carame is detected, could be my bias after the white stout sucked so hard?)

 

[SanPancho]

The first gave you the citrus/tropical character? I feel like the blowoffs have that character, but the final beer doesn’t. Really weird.

 

[isomerization]

I used 8 oz dry hops, but yes I believe it had a great yeast profile, as the aroma/flavor hadn’t faded after 3 months

 

[505-Brewer]

Are folks chucking in their hops warm or cooling then dry hopping?

 

[HopsAreGood]

Are folks chucking in their hops warm or cooling then dry hopping?

I threw my hops in at 75..the temp at which the bulk of my fermentation was. Slightly higher than normal but nowhere near the 90+

 

[505-Brewer]

Ok. I put mine in after cooling some and then cooled further. Anyone ferment hop at 98

 

[shoreman]

Brewed another beer with the Hornindal as I'm looking for a quick turnaround hoppy table beer. This one started at 1.046 and was down to 1.010 at day 3. Pitched at 80 degrees and it stayed there with the help on my seed mat under the fermentation bucket - Bio hops on day 2. Its a solid drinkable beer at day 3 and could be kegged and carb'ed for a drinkable beer in such a short time. It amazes me.

This was also a 30 min boil, longer mash. Going to continue to refine this beer as a staple on tap at all times, so far this is pretty spot on. Pils malt, oats, touch of crystal 20L.

 

[shoreman]

I'm on generation 3 with this yeast as well and have been told that it starts to deteriorate after 4-5 generations. What are you guys seeing? This is the Hornindal Strain from Omega.

 

[hezagenius]

Are folks chucking in their hops warm or cooling then dry hopping?

I fermented at 85F for 7 days then crashed to 42F, racked off the yeast, then dry hopped at room temp for 5 days.

 

[NeverDie]

It seems to do very well in a mead. I just finished making some with Hornindal, and my wife says it tastes somewhere between a high-end European beer and a Champagne.

 

[hezagenius]

It seems to do very well in a mead. I just finished making some with Hornindal, and my wife says it tastes somewhere between a high-end European beer and a Champagne.

I've been wondering about this. How long did you let it ferment? Did you transfer off the yeast and let it settle? If so, how long did it take? What sort of attenuation did you get?

 

[Miraculix]

I've been wondering about this. How long did you let it ferment? Did you transfer off the yeast and let it settle? If so, how long did it take? What sort of attenuation did you get?

I was asking myself the same questions. How big was your starting gravity and your final gravity?

 

[NeverDie]

I was asking myself the same questions. How big was your starting gravity and your final gravity?

Well, since you ask:
OG 1.106
FG 1.022; It's still fermenting, but I've elected to halt it here.
Composition: 261g honey and 5 cups of apple juice and 1/2 tsp Fermax yeast nutrient. So, technically it's a cysor.
I started it on 1/22/2019 and did the tasting yesterday 2/15/2019. That's 24 days at room temperature (about 70F).

As for pitch rate, I'm not sure, because I didn't try to measure it. I pitched it onto the yeast cake of a previous, very similar composition Hornindal cysor, but I didn't keep a record as to what the FG was when that Hornindal finished. Honestly, my thinking at the time was more like: "There's some yeast cake here, and rather than dump it, let's try recycling it," which is what I did, and then I blithely set it aside while I put my attention into other experiments. I didn't have high expectations for it. I just wanted to see how it would turn out, and even if it would turn out at all.

I didn't aerate it or make starter out of the yeast cake to revitalize it. I suspect that's at least partly why it took so long, in addition to the low fermentation temperature.

I hope that answers your questions! If not, ask away.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Brewed another NEIPA yesterday and used the hornindal again. So here's an update...

Pilsner, malted oats, flaked oats, white wheat, carapils, acidulated. Citra pellets, mosaic cryo. Giant whirlpool at 180 then will be doing one giant dry hop right at the very end of fermentation...just enough left to scrub any oxygen when adding them..not going for any biotransformation. Will likely leave the dry hops in for only 1 or 2 days before transferring to the keg. OG is 1.062.

Because this thread is about hornindal I'll address that now. Purchased a pack of omega hornindal and it was dated 11/9/2018 so just over three months old. Not ideal but it should still be fine. I decided that I was going to definitely underpitch it and try to do it at a pretty high temp in order to really bring out the tropical esters. I currently have no way of keeping the temp high so I decided just to wrap some blankets around the fermenter and hope to keep as much heat in as possible. I read on another forum that a significant amount of ester production occurs before active fermentation, so even if you can't keep the kveik strains hot throughout, you definitely want to pitch hot. (If you're going for those esters)


Anyway, brewday went fine and I got the "cooled" wort into the fermenter..took a temp reading with a long stemmed thermowell and had it at 102 in the center of the wort. I pitched exactly 1 tablespoon of slurry, no starter, and immediately wrapped it in 2 blankets in a dark closet. The first signs of active fermentation started about 10 hours post pitch, and it's been going ever since. Currently at 30 hours post pitch as I write this. I have a strip temp reader on the side of the fermenter and it's currently reading 80. I've read that the temp in the center of the fermenter can be anywhere from 4-8 degrees higher than the wort pressed up against the side wall, so I'll guess it's closer to about 85.

One thing to mention is that when pitching the yeast at a high temperature and then letting it naturally come down to room temp, or whatever temp it gets to before the yeast starts working, is that the fermenter is going to suck water in from the airlock. I had to refill it about 3-4 times.

Another thing to mention is that it doesn't "seem" to be quite as vigorous as it was last time when I used quite a bit more yeast. It's definitely going and it's very consistent, it's just not at the point of pop-pop-pop-pop-...perhaps it will get there eventually. Nice developed Krausen, only about 3/4 inch high.

We'll see how it turns out and I'll report back later.

 

[NeverDie]

One thing to mention is that when pitching the yeast at a high temperature and then letting it naturally come down to room temp, or whatever temp it gets to before the yeast starts working, is that the fermenter is going to suck water in from the airlock. I had to refill it about 3-4 times.

To avoid that, switch to an S-airlock.

 

[HopsAreGood]

To avoid that, switch to an S-airlock.

Funny thing is I realized this as I was refilling it..just didn't have time to run out and get one. But thank you for the tip. Much appreciated.

 

[MakeDankBeer]

Brewed another NEIPA yesterday and used the hornindal again. So here's an update....

I brewed a 3 gallon, 1.074 OG NEIPA on Monday, my hornidal was also from November, I was worried about it being pretty dead so I pitched the whole pouch into 105-110 degree wort. Slow bubbles out the blow off 3-4 hours later.

I dry hopped today, as I am very worried about oxidizing this style, and its still chugging along day 3 pretty consistently. Mine has been held at 30c with some slight temperature drops.

I was really expecting this to be done by now. I'm curious of how much difference there will be between your teaspoon and my whole pouch.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I was really expecting this to be done by now. I'm curious of how much difference there will be between your teaspoon and my whole pouch.

Here's an update on mine. Not to be anal or anything, but simply and solely for the sake of clarity, I used exactly one tablespoon...not one teaspoon.

Fermentation was going absolutely crazy on Tuesday afternoon, calmed down and continuing bubbling away ever so gently on Wednesday, and then appeared completely done this morning (Thursday) No airlock activity except for some occasional off gassing and no visual signs of activity through the side of the fermenter...it's clear.

Decided to transfer to the keg once again forgoing any "clean up time" Took a gravity reading and it was 1.010. The under pitch absolutely worked without a doubt. A sample of the beer was extremely fruity and had no signs of any off flavors. Granted it was flat and warm, but you get the idea. Now dry hopping in a sealed purged keg and will be agitating it pretty aggressively on and off for a few hours at room temp before chilling and putting the gas on. Testing out the theory that you can get the same amount of hop extraction in only a few hours with agitation that you can just letting them sit still for days. We'll see.

 

[Sbe2]

Can Omega Hothead (Stranda Kviek I think) be treated the same as Hornindal?