Here I go again, Yeast issue or not?

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redrocker652002

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Greetings to all. I had a brew day yesterday where I did a single hop ale that seemed to go really well. Mash temp was in the range of 150 to 155 with most being in the 152 to 154 area. Sparged in at about 150 to 160 and boiled for an hour. Not a super huge boil, but it was going along nicely. My OG into the fermenter was about 1.052/ Now, it has been about 20 hours with no visible activity in the fermenter. I pitched Cellar Science Cali yeast at about 65 degrees or so and it has been sitting in my fridge at about 64 degrees. I cannot remember how long it took last time I did this, so this time I am going to write it down, but I seem to remember it was somewhere in the 16 hour range. I get a bit paranoid when this happens and it usually all ends up ok, but this one has me a bit concerned as it is going to be Christmas gifts for the folks at work. Any input or just tell me to relax is welcomed. LOL.
 
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Assuming Cellarscience is simply a brick breaker I would bet their "Cali" is some actual yeast manufacturer's Chico strain - like, perhaps Fermentis US-05 - in which case you're looking at a well known lag time :)

Hang in there...

Cheers!
 
It looks like you’re in the right temperature range for the yeast. I did a bit of reading and most folks say that it takes off relatively quickly. That said, I didn’t find any absolute measures of time until there was sufficient activity to drive an air lock. I know SafAle WB-06 typically gets going in about 16 hours, as I have one in the fermentation chamber right now. I’m sure things will be cooking in a few hours.

Related to this topic, a tool that completely eliminated this yeast anxiety for me is a wireless hydrometer. Before bubbling starts, it’s possible to detect the slight decrease in OG during the lag phase of fermentation. It’s so nice to just toss it in and then monitor the results via BrewFather remotely. There’s no more flicking the air lock or trying to peer through opaque plastic with a flashlight.

I own the RAPT Pill, which can be imported via AliExpress (with some patience due to the relatively slow delivery). It integrates perfectly with BrewFather and is only about $60. Because of the peace of mind and deep insight into the fermentation, it’s my favorite brewing tool hands down.
 
I have used that yeast before and it has taken some time to get going. I don't remember how long though. Let it sit for another day or so and you should see something. Sometimes I will check in the morning and see no activity then a few hours later little clumps then full blown fermentation.
 
Positronic_Matrix said:
It looks like you’re in the right temperature range for the yeast. I did a bit of reading and most folks say that it takes off relatively quickly. That said, I didn’t find any absolute measures of time until there was sufficient activity to drive an air lock. I know SafAle WB-06 typically gets going in about 16 hours, as I have one in the fermentation chamber right now. I’m sure things will be cooking in a few hours.

Related to this topic, a tool that completely eliminated this yeast anxiety for me is a wireless hydrometer. Before bubbling starts, it’s possible to detect the slight decrease in OG during the lag phase of fermentation. It’s so nice to just toss it in and then monitor the results via BrewFather remotely. There’s no more flicking the air lock or trying to peer through opaque plastic with a flashlight.

I own the RAPT Pill, which can be imported via AliExpress (with some patience due to the relatively slow delivery). It integrates perfectly with BrewFather and is only about $60. Because of the peace of mind and deep insight into the fermentation, it’s my favorite brewing tool hands down.
Click to expand...
I have an Ispindel that I cannot seem to get to work. It is very frustrating so I am thinking of getting rid of it. I might look into Rapt and see if it is any easier. Thanks for the info.
 
OakIslandBrewery said:
I have used that yeast before and it has taken some time to get going. I don't remember how long though. Let it sit for another day or so and you should see something. Sometimes I will check in the morning and see no activity then a few hours later little clumps then full blown fermentation.
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I am going to let it go at least thru tomorrow. I start my work week, so it might even be in there longer. LOL
 
We have now hit the 36 hour mark and the liquid levels in my airlock have moved so that I think there is some fermentation starting. Not full blown yet, but I can see that the pressure has it just about ready to start bubbling. Hopefully we will hit stride sometime today so I can feel better about this. LOL.
 
Sounds promising. If you don't see actual bubbles within the next couple hours, it might not be a bad idea to add more yeast just in case. Keep in mind also, there could be a leak in your airlock. Or is this a plastic bucket by any chance? Could be leaking someplace around the lid.
 
dmtaylor said:
Sounds promising. If you don't see actual bubbles within the next couple hours, it might not be a bad idea to add more yeast just in case. Keep in mind also, there could be a leak in your airlock. Or is this a plastic bucket by any chance? Could be leaking someplace around the lid.
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I checked the lid, seemed tight to me, but it's always a possibility. Gonna ride it out and see where it lands. I start my work week tonight anyway, so nothing is going to happen with it until Wednesday morning anyway.
 
Maybe you could pitch a bit warmer until it cranks up and then lower it to recommended ferm temp over a day or 2. I usually pitch everything around 80 F and then adjust it down if I need to once it's thumping away, depending on the recommended yeast temp. It warms up to start anyway on its own.
I'm also not afraid of swirling a fermenter and talking dirty to it if it acts sluggish.
 
skunkape said:
Maybe you could pitch a bit warmer until it cranks up and then lower it to recommended ferm temp over a day or 2. I usually pitch everything around 80 F and then adjust it down if I need to once it's thumping away, depending on the recommended yeast temp. It warms up to start anyway on its own.
I'm also not afraid of swirling a fermenter and talking dirty to it if it acts sluggish.
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Here's a good description of how yeast grow and when they produce the esters we call off flavors. You might want to start your fermentation a bit cooler.

http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
 
How did you store the yeast prior to using it? I noticed that they say not to freeze it.

STORAGE:
Refrigerate until use. Do not freeze.
Click to expand...

Cellar Science Cali

I've seen similar suggestions by other yeast makers as to not freezing. But I know plenty here that do freeze their yeast and have no issue. But it would only take one in many to make their suggestion to not freeze valid, if those that just refrigerate and have no issues is a even greater number.


Still, I think the more likely thing is that you are being too impatient for the low temps you are fermenting at. Maybe you also pitched too little.
 
hotbeer said:
How did you store the yeast prior to using it? I noticed that they say not to freeze it.



Cellar Science Cali

I've seen similar suggestions by other yeast makers as to not freezing. But I know plenty here that do freeze their yeast and have no issue. But it would only take one in many to make their suggestion to not freeze valid, if those that just refrigerate and have no issues is a even greater number.


Still, I think the more likely thing is that you are being too impatient for the low temps you are fermenting at. Maybe you also pitched too little.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I did put the packets in the fridge as the label said. I don't have any real room in my freezer and already am storing the hop haul I got from another brewer, so it's best to stay out of the freezer for a while to keep my wife off my back. LOL
 
skunkape said:
Maybe you could pitch a bit warmer until it cranks up and then lower it to recommended ferm temp over a day or 2. I usually pitch everything around 80 F and then adjust it down if I need to once it's thumping away, depending on the recommended yeast temp. It warms up to start anyway on its own.
I'm also not afraid of swirling a fermenter and talking dirty to it if it acts sluggish.
Click to expand...
I usually pitch a bit higher as well, into the 70's, but the chiller got away from me as my back was getting sore and I was starting my clean up. So, yes, it seems maybe my cooler pitch might have had something to do with it.
 
Final update on this one. Yeast seems to have started it's thing. Not a super fast bubble out of the airlock, but steady. I would expect it to increase in the next day or so then slowly die down. Thanks to all who replied.
 
redrocker652002 said:
It just seems that there are a few on the other forum that are not here so I thought why not.
Click to expand...
I enjoy reading the discussion in both places!

There are others who also "cross post" - and when the answers (between the forums) vary, I think it's worth while to mention the cross post.

If that is something that is frowned upon, please let me know. I will refrain from it in the future.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware that it's frowned upon, but I am not (and never will be by personal choice) a forum administrator.
 
I think crossposting is great. I replied in both. Sometimes I copy/paste the same response. This time I saw them at different times so I responded with different words in each -- oh my! I know! It never bothers me. This is the best way to get diverse feedback from different communities. You'll often get unique useful tidbits from each.
 
After @BrewnWKopperKat brought it up, I clicked the link to see this reply from (guessing) Denny Conn.

"If your sanitation is good, I've found no difference between a 2 hour start and a 72 hour start."

New news for me. I think 36 hrs is the max for me with US-05 (and I agree with @day_trippr about 05's lag time...why I don't like that yeast as much as I used to). Good to know that cross posting isn't frowned upon here. Honestly, this is the only beer forum I interact but that being said, I just assumed cross posting was a frowned up on thing.
 
Yesfan said:
After @BrewnWKopperKat brought it up, I clicked the link to see this reply from (guessing) Denny Conn.

"If your sanitation is good, I've found no difference between a 2 hour start and a 72 hour start."

New news for me. I think 36 hrs is the max for me with US-05 (and I agree with @day_trippr about 05's lag time...why I don't like that yeast as much as I used to). Good to know that cross posting isn't frowned upon here. Honestly, this is the only beer forum I interact but that being said, I just assumed cross posting was a frowned up on thing.
Click to expand...
I have gotten some good info on both forums. Denny has given me some great info, and I look for his posts when I browse the forums over there. I know in other forums I have been involved in, cross posting is very frowned upon. Not sure why. Either way, I got some great info on both and after about 32 hours the yeast took off. Not burning it up, but a steady stream of bubbles.
 
redrocker652002 said:
I know in other forums I have been involved in, cross posting is very frowned upon. Not sure why. Either way, I got some great info on both and after about 32 hours the yeast took off. Not burning it up, but a steady stream of bubbles.
Click to expand...
Cross posting (at the same time) to other forums is usually frowned upon. It's rude!

Chances are (unless it's clearly conveyed upfront) participants on either side, not being aware off the cross posting, may feel their efforts are wasted due to needlessly duplicating efforts.*

So I would not vow for crossposting, unless there's a real time-sensitive emergency that demands a quick answer/solution. When doing so, please mention you're posting the same question in other forums, because...

* For the same reasons we do not allow duplicate/parallel threads here. Most forums have similar rules.

HBT Moderator
 
IslandLizard said:
Cross posting (at the same time) to other forums is usually frowned upon. It's rude!

Chances are (unless it's clearly conveyed upfront) participants on either side, not being aware off the cross posting, may feel their efforts are wasted due to needlessly duplicating efforts.*

So I would not vow for crossposting, unless there's a real time-sensitive emergency that demands a quick answer/solution. When doing so, please mention you're posting the same question in other forums, because...

* For the same reasons we do not allow duplicate/parallel threads here. Most forums have similar rules.

HBT Moderator
Click to expand...
OK, got it. You are a Mod, so I must follow your rules. Too bad, as I think people are going to be missing an opportunity to get info from both sides of the fence that might help them in their brewing quest.
 
Yesfan said:
US-05 (and I agree with [...] about 05's lag time...why I don't like that yeast as much as I used to).
Click to expand...
The anecdotal stories and partial analysis that I've seeing about Cali suggest that it is not re-branded US-05. While, I haven't brewed with Cali, I've brewed enough with Apex San Diego, BRY-97, and WLP001 (dry) to see differences between those three dry yeast products.


Over the years, I've seen that pitching at 63-64F results in slow starts for many dry yeast products. At 63F there can also be "no" starts - and raising the wort temperature to 67F results in a good start in a couple of hours.


Currently, with my temperature control process, I will often pitch with the wort at 67F and after fermentation has started, adjust the wort temperature to around 65F. Some yeast products start 'quick enough' at 65F, a couple seem to prefer 67F.
 
RM-MN said:
Here's a good description of how yeast grow and when they produce the esters we call off flavors. You might want to start your fermentation a bit cooler.

http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
Click to expand...
Cool article. I'll start shooting for 70s before pitching and see if that changes anything. It did support my fermentor swirling to "rouse yeast back into suspension".
 
fwiw, going back as far as the 110 baud acoustic modem dial-up BBS days cross-posting has always been considered a faux pas, not the least because one may post to the duplicate thread that is never again followed by the OP...

Cheers!
 
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IslandLizard said:
Cross posting (at the same time) to other forums is usually frowned upon. It's rude!

Chances are (unless it's clearly conveyed upfront) participants on either side, not being aware off the cross posting, may feel their efforts are wasted due to needlessly duplicating efforts.*

So I would not vow for crossposting, unless there's a real time-sensitive emergency that demands a quick answer/solution. When doing so, please mention you're posting the same question in other forums, because...

* For the same reasons we do not allow duplicate/parallel threads here. Most forums have similar rules.

HBT Moderator
Click to expand...
So why is cross-posting frowned upon?

I'm with the others that if someone has a question why not post it on other forums. There are just trying to get an answer and chances are they might get several more responses to help figure it out.
 

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