Hop Substitute for Stout recipe

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jaysquared2

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So, plan do do a stout and the recipe calls for 2oz Willamette @60 and 1oz @5. I have tons of hops and don’t really want to make a trip to the LHBS 45 mins away just to get more hops then I’m already trying to use up. I’ve read Pilgrim is a hop that works for stouts/porters. Could I sub this and just adjust the amounts to match the IBUs? What about Target hops? Hallertau Mittelfruh? Cascade? Bramling Cross?

It’s going to be a Chocolate Vanilla Coffee stout, if that changes which hop would work best.
 
Skip the 5 Minute addition and use something neutral @60 like magnum or similar.

If you insist on the 5 minute addition, use something noble like saaz or mittelfrüh or something English might also work.

Definitely stay away from cascade, citra and all other American piny/citrus hops.
 
The likes of Pilgrim and Target will be fine, it's not like you're adding huge amounts and they will be playing second fiddle to the malt and vanilla etc in any case.
 
Skip the 5 Minute addition and use something neutral @60 like magnum or similar.

If you insist on the 5 minute addition, use something noble like saaz or mittelfrüh or something English might also work.

Definitely stay away from cascade, citra and all other American piny/citrus hops.

I’d prefer to keep the recipe as close as possible to the original with the change in hop variety being the only changed factor. So, I’d keep the 5 min addition. I mentioned Cascade as I’ve seen a few recipes that use it in the style so figured I’d list it.
 
The likes of Pilgrim and Target will be fine, it's not like you're adding huge amounts and they will be playing second fiddle to the malt and vanilla etc in any case.
The original recipe has an IBU of 33.1. I adjusted for 0.5oz Pilgrim @60 and 1oz @5 (my Pilgrim is 9.8% the recipes Willamette was listed at 5.6%) and it gives me around 34.3. Seems close enough to me. Which of the 2 would you recommend best?

Some hop charts show Willamette as a viable sub for Target, so would I assume that goes both ways?
 
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So, plan do do a stout and the recipe calls for 2oz Willamette @60 and 1oz @5. I have tons of hops and don’t really want to make a trip to the LHBS 45 mins away just to get more hops then I’m already trying to use up. I’ve read Pilgrim is a hop that works for stouts/porters. Could I sub this and just adjust the amounts to match the IBUs? What about Target hops? Hallertau Mittelfruh? Cascade? Bramling Cross?

It’s going to be a Chocolate Vanilla Coffee stout, if that changes which hop would work best.

Go with Fuggles. Willamette is essentially American Fuggles.
 
Fuggles (60 min), East Kent Goldings (60 minutes), or be daring and do a Hallertau Mittelfruh (60 minutes) and Cascade Blend (30 or 15 minutes depending on strength of hoppiness). The first two are my recommendation and the blend is based on what you're listing you have. b^^ (they are all 1 oz of pellet hops each btw)
 
I mentioned Cascade as I’ve seen a few recipes that use it in the style so figured I’d list it.

Well that reflects the fact that some US brewers would put Cascade on their breakfast cereal if they could. It's a British style so British hops should be regarded as the natural option. Typically the cheaper hops were used, so you're looking at 2nd- and 3rd-gen Wye varieties rather than premium varieties like Goldings; Guinness use a lot of Target I believe but they're not too fussy.

The original recipe has an IBU of 33.1. I adjusted for 0.5oz Pilgrim @60 and 1oz @5 (my Pilgrim is 9.8% the recipes Willamette was listed at 5.6%) and it gives me around 34.3. Seems close enough to me. Which of the 2 would you recommend best?
There's not a lot in it,in many ways Pilgrim is an improved Target with better disease resistance. It's got some character though which makes it more useful as a late addition than Target, and eg Pilgrim extract is used for bittering Cloudwater DIPA. I'm not a great fan of Target, so I'd use it up on this where it isn't going to matter too much.

I love things like Bramling Cross and that's why I wouldn't waste BX on this beer! A BX/Goldings blend makes a great best bitter though.

Some hop charts show Willamette as a viable sub for Target, so would I assume that goes both ways?

US recipes (particularly older ones from a time when British hops were less available in the US) throw Willamette at anything that needs a British hop, as an alternative that is easy for US brewers to buy. But it's not always an accurate replacement, it's more about availability than anything else. Put it this way, a British brewer wouldn't view it as a sub for Target.

It's a Fuggle with an extra set of chromosomes that helps the yield, but the fact that it's being grown in different terroir makes a big difference. You can't really replicate the UK climate in the US, spiritually Willamette is closer to Savijnski Golding as a Fuggle family grown in a continental climate.
 
Well that reflects the fact that some US brewers would put Cascade on their breakfast cereal if they could. It's a British style so British hops should be regarded as the natural option. Typically the cheaper hops were used, so you're looking at 2nd- and 3rd-gen Wye varieties rather than premium varieties like Goldings; Guinness use a lot of Target I believe but they're not too fussy.


There's not a lot in it,in many ways Pilgrim is an improved Target with better disease resistance. It's got some character though which makes it more useful as a late addition than Target, and eg Pilgrim extract is used for bittering Cloudwater DIPA. I'm not a great fan of Target, so I'd use it up on this where it isn't going to matter too much.

I love things like Bramling Cross and that's why I wouldn't waste BX on this beer! A BX/Goldings blend makes a great best bitter though.



US recipes (particularly older ones from a time when British hops were less available in the US) throw Willamette at anything that needs a British hop, as an alternative that is easy for US brewers to buy. But it's not always an accurate replacement, it's more about availability than anything else. Put it this way, a British brewer wouldn't view it as a sub for Target.

It's a Fuggle with an extra set of chromosomes that helps the yield, but the fact that it's being grown in different terroir makes a big difference. You can't really replicate the UK climate in the US, spiritually Willamette is closer to Savijnski Golding as a Fuggle family grown in a continental climate.

Wow, great reply! Very helpful. One last question I’ll throw out there: What about Polaris? I know it gives off a slight mint and wonder how that would work in a chocolate stout? Almost maybe like a mint chocolate possibly? Like a thin mint cookie type flavor.
 
If you look through the archives you'll see that the idea of a Polaris mint choc chip is one that comes up periodically, but from what I can tell it's not something that works particularly well.

I'm fascinated by Polaris - it has a silly alpha/oil content and by all accounts an "interesting" taste, and it's not one you ever see in commercial beers so it's on my list of ones to try. But it is a bit weird.
 
This is the recipe I’m going with (only thing I modified myself is the hops)

Est 6.8% ABV
Est 34.5 IBUs
SRM 42

6 lbs Pilsner
2.5lbs Vienna
1lb Chocolate Malt
1lb Lactose
1lb Flakes Oats
0.5lb Roasted Barley
0.25lb Crystal 60
0.25lb Black Malt

1oz Pilgrim @60
1oz Pilgrim @5
S-04 Yeast

4oz Cacao Nibs (secondary)
3 cups cold coffee (bottling)
1tsp vanilla extract (bottling)

Look fine?
 
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