hop schedule for better hop retention in bottle

[bannerj]

I've been studying a couple clone recipes to think more about keeping more hops bitterness and flavor in a bottle. The catch is of course that by the time fa DIPA is fully conditioned, the hops have really started to dissipate.

So what if I think about designing the DIPA specifically for bottle conditioning with different expectations?

Pliny starts out pretty robust but fades the hops out towards the end.

Lagunita's Sucks starts out pretty sparse and then ramps the hops up toward the end.

GF West Coast IPA seems somewhat even the whole way through.

I haven't had each of these beers on draft or in aged bottles. For those of you who have had these beers in bottles, or anyone who has thought about this: where should the bulk of the hops go in a schedule if you want to optimize hop flavor in a conditioned bottle?

I guess what I'm getting at is...what to expect by definitively increasing the 40-15 min additions?

 

[Calichusetts]

20 minutes to flameout is the most important...some will argue that you only need a 5-flameout addition for best results. I do a FWH, then equal additions at 20, 15, 10, 5. With a large flameout addition.

Try doing a hop stand for 20-30 minutes and of course a rather large or multiple dry hops. Finally, you can try a hop tea at bottling time. I have no issues with hop bombs. I can smell them as soon as I crack the bottle. And the aroma is quite potent for a few months. I've actually done all of the above for a few brews and found it too hoppy...and I am a big hop head.

 

[bannerj]

20 minutes to flameout is the most important...some will argue that you only need a 5-flameout addition for best results. I do a FWH, then equal additions at 20, 15, 10, 5. With a large flameout addition.

Try doing a hop stand for 20-30 minutes and of course a rather large or multiple dry hops. Finally, you can try a hop tea at bottling time. I have no issues with hop bombs. I can smell them as soon as I crack the bottle. And the aroma is quite potent for a few months. I've actually done all of the above for a few brews and found it too hoppy...and I am a big hop head.

so you are suggesting these techniques as they might retain hops in a bottle?

 

[14thstreet]

What he's suggesting is to add more hops at more times; i.e., the nuclear option. You might also consider adding gypsum up to about 300ppm. That could help with hop "expression" and a bit of dryness/brightness to the beer. You can try this in a glass if you want (a pinch at a time) to see if that's what you want but know your water first before adding it to a full-sized batch.

 

[Yooper]

One easy way to do this it to make the beer to not need long conditioning. For example, ferment the beer at the optimum temperature with the optimum amount of yeast, and it won't need long conditioning at all. I'm routinely drinking my Pliny clone by week 3. You just have to allow enough time for the beer to carbonate. That really helps with keeping the "hoppiness" of IIPAs. The fresher the beer, the more hops aroma and flavor.

And of course, lots of late hops additions in the whirlpool and/or dryhop will make a huge difference.

 

[bannerj]

One easy way to do this it to make the beer to not need long conditioning. For example, ferment the beer at the optimum temperature with the optimum amount of yeast, and it won't need long conditioning at all. I'm routinely drinking my Pliny clone by week 3. You just have to allow enough time for the beer to carbonate. That really helps with keeping the "hoppiness" of IIPAs. The fresher the beer, the more hops aroma and flavor.

And of course, lots of late hops additions in the whirlpool and/or dryhop will make a huge difference.

Great point. I have an imperial stout that has been sitting for almost five months. Bottling tonight. The trouble is I have a dipa that sat for 1.5 months, about 7%. And its been almost a month in the bottle and it still green with no head.

 

[Yooper]

Great point. I have an imperial stout that has been sitting for almost five months. Bottling tonight. The trouble is I have a dipa that sat for 1.5 months, about 7%. And its been almost a month in the bottle and it still green with no head.

I think an imperial stout will improve greatly with time; but not a DIPA. I wonder why you are lacking carbonation in the DIPA if it's only 7%? If it's "green", that's a fermentation issue and not really an aging issue, though.

 

[Cyclman]

As usual, +1 on Yooper's train of thought. Make a DIPA highly fermentable and dry, pitch enough for a great fermentation. The book Hops pretty much confirms this.

One thing that confuses me is that hugely hopped barleywines, people want to age them for years. IMO, if they have great fermentation, they're fantastic young. Hops fade quickly.

I have a Double American Dark Ale (Black IPA) massively hopped with Chinook, after a couple of months it is amazing how much of the fresh and late hop deliciousness has faded.

Don't let hophead beers languish in a fermenter. I bottle my beers, I think hoppy beer makes kegging worthwhile.

 

[Calichusetts]

One thing that confuses me is that hugely hopped barleywines, people want to age them for years. IMO, if they have great fermentation, they're fantastic young. Hops fade quickly.

Think of it this way, if there is a fantastic malt profile under those hops then its like you get two beers out of one. First few months are a delicious boozy hop bomb and the next few years are this ever changing/complex malty big beer.

 

[bannerj]

If it's "green", that's a fermentation issue and not really an aging issue, though.

I've had this happen with a few other beers...take an extra two weeks. I think it may be the low temps in my MI drafty old house basement...low 50s. I finally put the space heater in there 3 weeks ago about a week into it being in the bottle. I turned the heater on and roused the yeast by shaking the bottles a bit.

I think I'm also just interested in finding out what hops can linger longer in the bottle. I assume its aroma then flavor hen bitterness that fade in that order. I read so much about dry hopping but not as much about flavor, 30 to 0 adds.

 

[chickypad]

So what if I think about designing the DIPA specifically for bottle conditioning with different expectations?

Pliny starts out pretty robust but fades the hops out towards the end.

Lagunita's Sucks starts out pretty sparse and then ramps the hops up toward the end.

GF West Coast IPA seems somewhat even the whole way through.

I haven't had each of these beers on draft or in aged bottles. For those of you who have had these beers in bottles, or anyone who has thought about this: where should the bulk of the hops go in a schedule if you want to optimize hop flavor in a conditioned bottle?

I guess what I'm getting at is...what to expect by definitively increasing the 40-15 min additions?

I just don't think there's anything you can really do on the brewing end to prevent this effect. Pliny, Green Flash, Sculpin, Lagunitas, Stone - there's not a single one that escapes the effect of time. Same with my own brews, whether they are hopbursted at the end, hopped throughout, etc. That's why everyone is putting the "drink by" and "do not age this beer" warnings on the label. Like Yooper said, best thing to do is get your processes down so you can be drinking these as soon as possible.

 

[BHowe]

A Fresh IPA a day keeps the doctor away.