Hop aroma before fermentation?

[KepowOb]

So I'm batch #5 since getting back into brewing about 2 months ago. Overall been happy with the results, but I've done 2 Pale Ales that I thought would have more hop aroma on them, with it being basically non-existant.

I thought maybe it was recipe related, so today I brewed another batch with more late additions than I'd been doing.

All hop additions were Citra.
- 14g at 60min
- 14g at 10min
- 28g at 0 min
- 56g hop stand at 175F

The sample I pulled for a gravity reading tasted fine, but had basically no hop aroma, which I was sort of expected with those late additions.

I was thinking it might be an issue with my recipes, or my process with the previous batches, but with no aroma on the sample, could it be the hops just aren't that fresh? Or is it normal not to have some at this point?

For this batch I plan to do a dryhop addition with another 56g. Is it worth buying some new hops and seeing what happens? Do I roll with the ones I have, and if it's lacking, re-brew with new hops to compare?

I bought the Citra about 2 months ago. It was a 1lbs bag from an online shop. They repackage, but say it's purged with nitrogen.

After I opened the bag, I used a food saver to vacuum seal and back into the freezer they went. They smell nice when I cut open the bag to weigh things out, but I don't have anything to compare them to for what a fresh/better-stored would smell like (assuming that's the issue).

While I wait for this to ferment out though, I'd love to know if it's normal at this stage and I'm just being paranoid because of my last batches, or if it could be related to hop freshness, or something else entirely?

 

[Pkrd]

Is this a 5 gallon batch?
Double your hop stand and dry hop.

I use the 5/10/15 rule for dry hopping.
5g per 10l for pale ales
10 for IPA
15 for DIPA

 

[KepowOb]

Is this a 5 gallon batch?
Double your hop stand and dry hop.

I use the 5/10/15 rule for dry hopping.
5g per 10l for pale ales
10 for IPA
15 for DIPA

5 gallons, yup.

If this doesn't work out, I wouldn't be against trying to up my rates more, but from the recipes I've been looking at, I didn't think I'd need to. I don't want a huge nose on an APA, but having something would be great, lol.

I'm not making my own recipes at this point. I'd like to used tried and true ones and get them locked down before making my own.

I'm wasn't expecting a huge nose on my previous batches, but I was expecting *something*.

I'm curious where the 5/10/15 rule you have comes from? Been looking at a lot of recipes lately and seeing IPAs more in the 5g/l range for the most part. More than open to trying new things though! I might be able to do 10g batches soon, so I'd have some split batch potential to experiment with this sort of thing which would be great.

When you go with 5g/l on the hop stand, do you get the aroma off the sample you pull pre-fermentation?

Also, maybe I'm worrying about nothing. It's fermenting away now and it smells pretty nice, lol.

 

[Golddiggie]

Try using the hop bursting method for the hops. Basically, you remove any additions before 20 minutes from the end of the boil and do everything 20 minutes from the end forward.

Are you whirlpooling your wort, using a filter/spider, or something else? Also, what are you doing to chill the wort?

Before I got my Spike kettles I would use a hop spider (all stainless) to contain the hop matter to protect my plate chiller. With my kettle change (also went from propane burners to electric elements) I'm doing 10 minute whirlpool with 10 minute rest before running through the chiller. With this kettle change, and my English IPA recipe, I still get great hop flavor and aroma from it.

IF you want to get more hop aroma/flavor "pop" do the dry hopping post fermentation completion. I'm actually planning that for a coming brew (best bitter recipe) where I'll dry hop (CO2 purged) post fermentation for a few days before cold crashing and carbonating (in conical) before shifting some to a keg and putting the rest into cans.

Any beers where I want the hop flavor and aroma to be noticeable, I hop burst. The best bitter is all 15 minutes from the end forward for additions (of element power off).

I'd advise getting brewing software to run the recipes through if you're doing a whirlpool. Unless they have instructions for that method. Or to change up the hop schedule to the bursting method. IME, pale ales, IPAs, and such really benefit from this method. At least IF you have the hop amount on hand to go that route. My IPA (before going to a whirlpool method) would use about a pound for a 9 gallon batch. Under the whirlpool method, I dropped that to 12oz for a 12 gallon batch (that's volume into kegs, so more into fermenter).

 

[KepowOb]

Try using the hop bursting method for the hops. Basically, you remove any additions before 20 minutes from the end of the boil and do everything 20 minutes from the end forward.

Are you whirlpooling your wort, using a filter/spider, or something else? Also, what are you doing to chill the wort?

Before I got my Spike kettles I would use a hop spider (all stainless) to contain the hop matter to protect my plate chiller. With my kettle change (also went from propane burners to electric elements) I'm doing 10 minute whirlpool with 10 minute rest before running through the chiller. With this kettle change, and my English IPA recipe, I still get great hop flavor and aroma from it.

IF you want to get more hop aroma/flavor "pop" do the dry hopping post fermentation completion. I'm actually planning that for a coming brew (best bitter recipe) where I'll dry hop (CO2 purged) post fermentation for a few days before cold crashing and carbonating (in conical) before shifting some to a keg and putting the rest into cans.

Any beers where I want the hop flavor and aroma to be noticeable, I hop burst. The best bitter is all 15 minutes from the end forward for additions (of element power off).

I'd advise getting brewing software to run the recipes through if you're doing a whirlpool. Unless they have instructions for that method. Or to change up the hop schedule to the bursting method. IME, pale ales, IPAs, and such really benefit from this method. At least IF you have the hop amount on hand to go that route. My IPA (before going to a whirlpool method) would use about a pound for a 9 gallon batch. Under the whirlpool method, I dropped that to 12oz for a 12 gallon batch (that's volume into kegs, so more into fermenter).

I have the hops in loose right now, but I have a hop spider on the way right as I was looking at doing some NEIPAs with heavy late additions like you've mentioned, and figured it would result in more loss than needed if not.

I use an immersion chiller for cooling. At the moment my ground water is still cold, so I can get it down to 175 in under 2 minutes.

For this last batch I dropped it to 175-180, added the hops, and kept the heat on really low to maintain the temp since it was only like 8C outside. I don't have a way to recirculate at the moment, so I just give it a stir every now and then. That batch I did it over 30 minutes.

As for brewing software I'm using Brewfather, which I'm really happy with.

I just found a recipe that takes about 1lbs of mosaic between a whirlpool and 2 dry hop additions, so I'll give that a go and if I'm still having issues then I know I'm doing other stuff wrong, lol.

 

[Stormcrow]

I've actually never done a hop stand or whirlpool hopped. Would love to try sometime. However, i have noticed that even a relatively small dry hop seems to improve all my recipes to my taste (or smell for that matter), even if they aren't IPAs.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

The sample I pulled for a gravity reading tasted fine, but had basically no hop aroma, which I was sort of expected with those late additions.

Carbonation should help with hop aroma quite a bit.

One of my most recent batches was a Pale Ale with a very similar hop schedule (18 IBUs Columbus at 30 min, 1 oz Amarillo at 10, 1 oz Amarillo at 0, 2 oz Amarillo at 170F for 20 minute steep). I was happy enough with the hop character that I might do the same for a APA that I plan to brew for a competition (partially to see how an actual APA will do in a competition vs the typical 6.5% IPAs that usually win the category). The hop character was similar to what I would expect in a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.

A dry hop addition will boost the hop aroma, if you want more hop aroma. In the past I have brewed a similar batch without the hop steep and 1 to 2 oz of dry hops.

 

[KepowOb]

Carbonation should help with hop aroma quite a bit.

One of my most recent batches was a Pale Ale with a very similar hop schedule (18 IBUs Columbus at 30 min, 1 oz Amarillo at 10, 1 oz Amarillo at 0, 2 oz Amarillo at 170F for 20 minute steep). I was happy enough with the hop character that I might do the same for a APA that I plan to brew for a competition (partially to see how an actual APA will do in a competition vs the typical 6.5% IPAs that usually win the category). The hop character was similar to what I would expect in a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.

A dry hop addition will boost the hop aroma, if you want more hop aroma. In the past I have brewed a similar batch without the hop steep and 1 to 2 oz of dry hops.

Awesome. I plan to do a 2oz dryhop in a couple of days from now. Maybe I was just overthinking things and should have only worried about it if it didn't work out this time