Homebrewing for fun ( and money )

[outdoorvtguy]

Just to preface this question, I am a somewhat older, long-term ( 10+ years ) homebrewer that enjoys brewing, both extract and all-grain. I have 4 kegs on tap and rotate at least one keg every 6 months. I am the only drinker in my house so it goes slowly.

I provided some of my beer to a local "festival" recently and it met with rave reviews. The thought occurred to me that I could brew beer for folks who want a cheaper, better testing alternative to stuff they can get currently ( bar any good craft brews ).

To this end, I have been thinking about getting the "business" of publishing recipes and offering to brew them, with a fee that covers the ingredients and my labor, to anyone who wants a cheaper keg ( or a bunch of bottles ). Has anyone does this and do they have a rough "business model" on how they do it? I am assuming that, since I am not directly selling the alcohol, that assembling the beer for them with ingredients that they pay for would be considered more of a service than a product.

Any thoughts would be helpful, not looking to get rich on this but to just increase the amount of times I need to brew. Thanks.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

Be careful is my advice.

 

[tmendick]

I would be surprised if you dont get in trouble doing something like this. Most states say that if any money is transferred in exchange for unregulated alcohol that illegal, whether or not it is a "donation" or someone is "paying for the ingredients".

 

[schatzke]

There is really no way in the US to homebrew for money legally.

 

[bucketnative]

I would contact a brewery lawyer... otherwise, even if it is technically legal, you could find your self in a greater amount of legal fees down the road should Johnny Law find out.

 

[TallDan]

You could do a brew-on-premises.

https://www.ttb.gov/beer/beer-faqs.shtml

See B1.

 

[bobeer]

Ya, this sounds illegal. Closest thing you could probably do is open a up BOP (Brew on Premises) shop. You can get a BOP license and charge customers a fee to come brew with you. You could ferment their beer for them and package it under this license I believe but they'd have to take it home and consume it.

We all would love to sell our homebrew either just as beer or charge for the service or even the ingredients but, unfortunately, all of that is illegal. If it wasn't I'd think 3/4's, at least, of us would be doing it.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Assuming that this is legal (I don't have any idea one way or the other), contact your insurance agent and have an open, forthright discussion about what you will be doing so that s/he can provide the best coverage for you and your situation.

The cost for this coverage will be a factor that a lot of people often ignore; this combined with a tendency to hold back information from their agent will nearly always lead to problems down the road, so it is best to go into it with eyes open and take care of it up-front.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

It looks like you live in Vermont, and you can find your specific homebrewing regulations here.

Long story short though, I don't think you can do what you want to do unless you become an actual brewery.

You could start a BOP setup as others have suggested, but there you are very limited as the operator in what you can do for your customers. For example you can not ferment the beer for them nor can you package it for them, nor can you help them substantially in either of those areas.

You're basically providing a facility where people can come pay you to brew, ferment, and package their beer.

 

[mongoose33]

1. The government will want its cut. That's why licensing is there.

2. You have liability issues as soon as you are in the business. Those above talking about insurance are correct.

3. As soon as you do this, I'd bet you become subject to food safety laws, i.e., must be done in an approved facility.

4. Forget it. I've had the same thought, but there's just no way to do this at a small scale legally--and not go broke.

 

[Phunhog]

I am going to be frank. It is completely illegal. Also know that as far as I have researched there has not been a single case of a homebrewer getting in legal trouble for doing what you have suggested. Not a single one.

 

[DocScott]

I am going to be frank. It is completely illegal. Also know that as far as I have researched there has not been a single case of a homebrewer getting in legal trouble for doing what you have suggested. Not a single one.

I wouldn't want to be the first to find out what kind of trouble you could get into. The first case would likely levy a pretty serious penalty to ensure no one else gets the same "clever" idea. Fun idea, but I wouldn't test the system. Continue to enjoy the fruits of your own labor.

 

[outdoorvtguy]

Sent a simple note to the VT DLC on this but I suspect, after reading all the regs out there, it's just not in the cards. Guess I just need to drink more to brew more .

 

[cegan09]

If your whole goal is simply to brew more often, why not go to smaller batches? They make 3 gallon kegs. Give more away, or make smaller batches and you'll get to brew more often.

 

[Auger]

Or, drink half a 5gal keg, bottle the rest off the keg, and hoard the bottles. Right, @TallDan ?

 

[TallDan]

I am going to be frank. It is completely illegal. Also know that as far as I have researched there has not been a single case of a homebrewer getting in legal trouble for doing what you have suggested. Not a single one.

There are many many instances of people getting in trouble for selling alcohol without a license. Whether that alcohol was homebrewed beer or something else is irrelevant.

 

[Phunhog]

There are many many instances of people getting in trouble for selling alcohol without a license. Whether that alcohol was homebrewed beer or something else is irrelevant.

True. I think the difference is whether you are selling beers out of the trunk of your car to random people. Or are you brewing beer specifically for friends and they compensate you in some form. The former is definitely shady whereas the latter is acceptable to most law abiding citizens.

 

[TallDan]

True. I think the difference is whether you are selling beers out of the trunk of your car to random people. Or are you brewing beer specifically for friends and they compensate you in some form. The former is definitely shady whereas the latter is acceptable to most law abiding citizens.

Uh, no it's not. If they buy beer illegally, they are no longer a law abiding citizen. They've broken the law.

Look, I'll agree that getting a few bucks from a good friend or family member to cover the cost of ingredients of a batch of beer that you brought to their party isn't going to land you in jail. Just like driving 60mph in a 55mph zone isn't going to. Homebrewing 205 gallons in a year won't either.

You get enough tickets for going over the speed limit you will go to jail though. You start selling to people you don't know too well and your beer ends up at an underage party, or a party where some other illegal activity happens and you'll end up with cops asking you why your beer was at the party.

And for what? You going to make $10 profit for a batch of beer that took you four hours to brew?

 

[kh54s10]

If you got a license for a nano brewery = no problems. As already stated there are other considerations. Local health inspections, insurance..... Research all the legalities and responsibilities, then decide if it is something to pursue.

 

[Sailingeric]

People like your beer.. have them over, show them how to brew and now you have some brew buddies to share the sweet nectar of Ninkasi.

 

[bosster01]

There's a local company near me that makes wine. All the chicks flock to it and they "brew" their wine and the dude makes a killing teaching them how to make it, bottle it etc.

While they're there he sells them drinks too to drink while they make the wine. And he sells them popcorn. Chicks love popcorn.

 

[jonny24]

Close friends... family... don't post about it on the internet...

Lots of illegal things slip by if you're not stupid.

 

[Phunhog]

Actually the OP could do what I do. Give away the beer at parties but sell brewery merchandise to cover your costs and "maybe" make some money. Trust me you won't make much but it covers my brewing costs so that I can brew more often. I have brewed for people's private parties and they always want to pay me. I always feel uneasy about that so instead I just sell them t-shirts to cover my costs. Sometimes it covers my costs and sometimes it doesn't.....

 

[dallasdb]

I have brewed for people's private parties and they always want to pay me.

Have them personally purchase the ingredients and have it shipped to you.

And let's be honest, brewing for a friend or acquaintance's private party isn't going to raise red flags.

Just take the money :rockin:

 

[Yooper]

There's a local company near me that makes wine. All the chicks flock to it and they "brew" their wine and the dude makes a killing teaching them how to make it, bottle it etc.

While they're there he sells them drinks too to drink while they make the wine. And he sells them popcorn. Chicks love popcorn.

Sounds great, because chicks can't really brew. It's a good thing a guy is there to teach them and sell them drinks, since they can't do it on their own. And popcorn, too! Chicks love popcorn. {Swoon}

 

[ktblunden]

Close friends... family... don't post about it on the internet...

Lots of illegal things slip by if you're not stupid.

This. The first rule about illegal activity is don't post about it on a public forum.

 

[Redlantern]

Seems to me that it is not beer until you add yeast - it is wort.

Charge for making the wort and rent out a carboy airlock and bottling bucket.

Recommend they buy yeast before the event.

Let them pitch the yeast after you left.

 

[billl]

Why don't you just sell them the bottles and give the beer away?

Anyway, it's not legal for you to sell your homebrew, even if you try to make it a more complicated transaction.

If you really just want to brew more, join a club. You'll have no trouble finding some people to brew with and who will help you get rid of all that extra beer.

 

[JonM]

I know that breweries are subject to food safety regulations as if it were an industrial kitchen (at least in Wisconsin.) So let's say you try to get by in some technicality like "Oh, I'm only making and selling wort, not alcohol," you're totally not out of the woods because you can still get slammed with all sorts of other stuff. It's kind of what cops call "pick me syndrome."

 

[jrcrilly]

All of these schemes for circumventing the law completely ignore the easiest issue to establish. Does it meet the "personal use" homebrew exemption? Of course not - you aren't the one drinking it - so don't worry about somehow making it legal by distorting other paragraphs. It isn't legal but you may not get caught. That doesn't sound to me like a great way to live your life, but some choose to live by it. If you are comfortable with that, go for it.

 

[JonM]

And as was mentioned by someone in another thread, if you have any aspirations of going pro someday, an arrest or getting caught attempting to circumvent regs will completely torpedo you chances of getting a legit license.

 

[oujens]

If anything, just remember that you would position yourself against a government agency that has way more resources than you do. I wouldn't try to test that water, even if you try to interpret the law differently. It's not worth it. Having said that, doing a couple on the side for friends probably isn't worth the time to prosecute, just don't start an actual business around town. Word spreads to the wrong people...

 

[AkTom]

Sounds great, because chicks can't really brew. It's a good thing a guy is there to teach them and sell them drinks, since they can't do it on their own. And popcorn, too! Chicks love popcorn. {Swoon}

Hey Yoop... I make some killer kettle corn;-)