Homebrewdude's Electric Brewing

[homebrewdude76]

Starting the planning stages now.
I have various 15gal stainless vessels I will be using.

I am planning 10gal batch size.
Using the boil pot to heat water, then pump to insulated HLT.
Mash will be cooler system.
I want to hard plumb/valve as much as I can.
Would like to permanent mount the boil pot, have a clean in place system.

I started an excel sheet for electrical items.
Going with the standard 40amp SSR and PID.
I would like the panel to also control the pumps.
Pumps would not be automated, just on/off switches.

Not sure on temperature probes.
Boil kettle and HLT should be simple permanent mounts.
Not sure how to handle the mash tun.
The boil pot would connect to the PID for the element.
The other two would just need a simple read out display on the panel

Also need to figure out how to circulate mash prior to pumping to the kettle.
I am thinking a separate small kettle the mash would run to.
I would have the option through a valve to pump to the kettle or to the mash tun.

 

[rockinmarty]

sounds like this could be a fun adventure to follow.
Subscribed!
Welcome to the wonderful world of E-brewing so many possibilities. I'm still trying to figure out what I will do. But I do have a bunch of parts already.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I have a stainless conical o2 tank I plan on using.
Just measuring the straight part of the tank it is 18~20gallons.
15 gallon batches would be nice, with 10gal being typical.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I rotated the image to show the conical portion down.
I would have legs welded to the sides to hold it this way.

I would like a large dump valve on the bottom.
After the boil I could just rinse and dump the hops out.
Not sure I can buy something this large.
Looks like a standard 2" tri-clamp flange can be welded on the pipe.
I hope hops can dump through a hole like this

 

[brewinsam]

I rotated the image to show the conical portion down.
I would have legs welded to the sides to hold it this way.

I would like a large dump valve on the bottom.
After the boil I could just rinse and dump the hops out.
Not sure I can buy something this large.

Just my $0.02, if that thing is still structurally sound I'd want to try to make that into a fermenter - get a couple of triclamps welded on and make a stand or add legs. None the less it's a pretty sweet tank, where did you find it?

 

[homebrewdude76]

I won't really fit in my space as a fermentor. And I do want a large brew pot with a bottom dump.
I got it from the scrap yard.

Looking at what to use for legs.
Tubing or angle iron.
Not sure what wall thickness to get.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I was only planning 1 heating element.
But looks like I should just plan on two.
I will weld two 2" tri-clamp ferrels in the pot for future elements.

I have 60amp service going into my garage.
I think I have a spare 50amp GFI breaker I can put in the panel in the garage
W=VA
5,500watt element = 23amps

Not sure if I can run two full 5,500 watt elements? Is that pushing it?

 

[cheez]

I was only planning 1 heating element.
But looks like I should just plan on two.
I will weld two 2" tri-clamp ferrels in the pot for future elements.

I have 60amp service going into my garage.
I think I have a spare 50amp GFI breaker I can put in the panel in the garage
W=VA
5,500watt element = 23amps

Not sure if I can run two full 5,500 watt elements? Is that pushing it?

That would be pushing it in my opinion. Some people go for it and others use one 5,500 and one 4,500 to get close to 80%. I'm in the process of building a 50-amp control panel and plan on having a 5,500w element for the HLT and a 4,500w for the boil kettle.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I can see that.
I would just build as if I would have two 5500 watt elements.
2 40amp SSR and 2 PID
I am wondering it one large heat sink is better then the single SSR ones?

 

[cheez]

Either will work for the heat sinks. I almost went with the DIN rail heat sinks but didn't want to fuss with a fan.

 

[duckdogs]

I'm not sure but i think that's similar to a couple of the tanks that i use in my small system, is it a medical oxygen tank? If so you are going to find a smaller tank inside that is welded to both the neck and the smaller line to the left of the picture it is also packed with insulation around the internal tank making it necessary to cut the bottom out of the smaller tank as well, to gain access to the neck and that little tube and the tube to the right with the red cap on it. I ended up cutting the top out at the top of the angle and pulling the the internal tank out. Just giving you a heads up before you cut the bottom out. I think if you pull the plate off and look inside the neck you will see the weld. They do come out to be about 18 gallons if cut at the start of the angle & a lot less of a headache than trying to use the conical part and if u cut the top out you have a sweet looking lid, a kettle with handles and about a 5.5 gallon stainless fermenter if you use the small internal tank.

 

[homebrewdude76]

Thats not what I wanted to here.
The top of mine is a welded flange.
I am going to cut that first.

Not sure where your second cut would be, might need to a see a photo of yours?

I guess I can just weld the 2" tri-colver on the bottom of the tank and use it as a bottom dump.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I cut the top off, you are correct.
There is another tank.
It seems rather loose, so there is some space on the sides.

I would like to leave some of the curve of the tank to help support it.
Do you think I need to cut where the weld seam is? Or maybe just under the red cap?

 

[homebrewdude76]

This is my second tank.
Tall and narrow, will be my HLT.

Cut the top off, and again another tank.
This one I am just going to cut the top like a keggle

 

[homebrewdude76]

Cut the top from the boil kettle. Still need to buff and smooth.
I only had a grinding disk. I think people use the flapper disks to make smooth?
And it did have another tank inside. Probably sell it.

 

[homebrewdude76]

HLT cut also,
Same thing had another tank inside.

I bought the fittings and silver solder.... going to try this out!

 

[duckdogs]

Looks to be about where I cut mine they are great tanks. For silver soldering make sure you also have the flux for silver soldering or it won't flow.

I was reading threw the post again if you use Abner pids with auto/manual modes you can use the temp probe that would be for the boil kettle element in you mt to monitor the mash temps if you want there's no need to have it in the boil kettle all you are ever going to do in the boil kettle is boil and you can see when that is going, in manual mode you would just back off the power once you get to a happy boil. Are you using a coil in the hlt to circulate threw for maintaining temps in the mt? I guess in a cooler you wont need to circulate much it should hold temps well.

Here's a couple of PJ's (He's the man) schematics that might help you out some.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I was planning on using the boil kettle to heat the main water for the mash tun.
So I need a temp probe.
I will be having two elements in the boil kettle to heat this water.

I would then transfer the water to the mash tun.
And any remaining to the HLT.

The HLT element would be used to maintain and slightly raise the sparge water.

The reason for this, is I might still want to use my secondary propane boil kettle.
I have 3 mash tuns I can utilize if I wanted.

So I need 3 elements (only 2 can run at one time)
3 PID's and 3 temp probes.

I would also like to monitor temp in the mash tun and chiller output.
I am not seeing many people build this in their control panel...

 

[duckdogs]

One 5500w element will bring that pot up to a boil without any problems no need for 2 of them in an 18-20 gal pot.

1 5500w element in your hlt & You can put a couple of probes on a selector switch so you have multiple probes on 1 pid select the one you are wanting to monitor but you would need to keep in mind while switching probes what the element that pid is controlling is doing.

I use my bk to heat up the mash water I don't have a probe in my bk the probe monitors the temp of the liquid going into my Mt (when circulating to ramp up temp for mash out etc) so I circulate the bk water past the probe and back into the bk works the same way and controls the bk if needed.

I occasionally need more sparge water so I added another ssr contactor and switch and plug that is run off of my hlt control when i need more sparge water than my main hlt can handle I pull out the "remote" hlt fill it and plug it in I have a temp gage on that tank and just watch it manually turn it off via switch on the control panel when it gets to temp but if they are both filled at the same time then there's no need to manually do it the one probe will turn off and on both as needed.

I do have 3 pids the 3rd basicly just monitors the out temp of the mt while the probe for the bk monitors the temp into the mt, I dont monitor the temp coming out of the cooler with a pid that's done with a temp gage on the output side of my cooler, but could be done by puting a probe were my temp gage is and selecting that probe to monitor i guess.

 

[Photopilot]

First off have to state it breaks my heart to see a conical being, put to use as not anything other than a conical.


I agree you won't need more than one element in a 15 gallon boil, unless your impatient. I started out with only one element in my bk, then would carry the water to the top to the insulated hlt. I realized I was just waisting time heating up something I did not need to yet. Went from bk to mlt for mash in. Then started heating more water in bk to transfer to hlt. I later added an element to hlt to be able to control temp of it and double initial heating speed.

 

[homebrewdude76]

It had to be cut this way. The second tank was welded to the top of the outer.
It was two tanks in one.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I really think I need two elements in the main kettle.
I will be using this to heat mash water in.
60 degrees up to 165
Possibly for a double batch.

I am adding the second element just for the mash water portion, I agree that only one is needed for the boiling.

 

[Photopilot]

I really think I need two elements in the main kettle.
I will be using this to heat mash water in.
60 degrees up to 165
Possibly for a double batch.

I am adding the second element just for the mash water portion, I agree that only one is needed for the boiling.

I poor all the water in the bk, then pump half up to the hlt. I have the water split in half with an element working on each half, kind of the same as two elements in one large container. When temps of bk and hlt are near strike temp I pump from bk to hlt, then continue heating to temp for strike.

I can then fill bk and pre heat sparge water. My bk element is larger so I use it for the heavy lifting. I have a temp probe in my bk and hlt attached to pids to control and monitor temps. My mlt is an insulated cooler so I don't need to monitor it just hit mash temp check with handheld thermometer and shut the lid.

 

[homebrewdude76]

OK,
not sure why I didn't think of that either.
It will allow me to only have 2 PID and 2 SSR.

I still want multiple temp probes throughout the system.
I am still surprised people are using some simple temp probe system in the panel.
Without having to use a PID.

 

[duckdogs]

Do yourself a favor and put one element in and try it, my water is in the low 50's and i have no issues bringing 15 gallons to a boil in about 45 min. If you have the ability 2 run 2 elements at the same time heat the mash water in the bk and the sparge water in the HLT. Once you mash out and sparge the bk will already be at or near 170 and can be started heating once the element is covered.

To give you an idea of what 2 5500w elements can do in my large system the bk is 58 gallons it has 2 elements in it and has no issues bring 45 - 50 gallons of water to a boil. I boil off an average of a gallon every 15 min it's 24 across the top and 30' deep yours if its the same size as the oxygen tanks i used and they look close are probably 14' across and about 24 ish deep.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I really need to think about hard plumbing my BK and HLT together.
To ease the transfer of water, I can probably even circulate through the mash tun to pre-heat it also...

 

[duckdogs]

I hard plumed all mine in i have a silicone hose that i can deploy in emergency situations & it definitely cuts down on the chance of getting 15 gallons of boiling water shooting out at you threw an open ball valve or a hose that wasn't shut off on the other end on those brew days that seem to happen every so often where you drink "just a little more" than normal haha good times

 

[homebrewdude76]

I just measured my cut tanks.
BK = 19gal
HLT= 17gal
I would like to brew 5gal, 10gal or 15gal. I want options.

I will be using various mash tun coolers that I already own. 5gal, 12gal, 15gal
Depending on the batch size and beer strength. So i can size the mash tun to the brew day.

When I calculate the ideal batch size for me, I can target a specific cooler size and hunt one down...

 

[duckdogs]

Beersmith if you haven't found it all ready is excellent once you figure out how to set it up to match your brew set up. it can be configured with multiple systems I have 3 in mine depending on how many and what we are brewing.

Just make sure you mount your elements so that they are below the lowest amount you would want to boil in that kettle, and that if you are using the thread that the holes are high enough to be turned in clearing the bottom of the tank if using the ripple elements.

 

[homebrewdude76]

Already own beersmith
I am going to use triclover element mounting.
I just need to keep them low in the pot.

I have been brewing for over 10 years!
20gal of RIS 2 weeks ago
20gal of Barleywine this weekend

 

[duckdogs]

Haha nice, so you have been brewing all grain using propane explains the reason behind thinking you need more than one element in the BK once you use electric you will not want to use LP gas again. Been brewing sense the mid 90's and used gas once I went electric I was impressed with the power and the lack of noise being able to brew inside with the doors closed in winter, not feeling like you had been standing in a room with a jet engine running for the last 6 hours when done with a brew.

 

[homebrewdude76]

Well I am spoiled, I have been in a heated garage.
I had a brew stand set up to make 3 batches at one time.
3 mash tuns and 3 boil pots.
But with propane I had to open the door and let the cold in.

Now, I am hoping to avoid that!
And moving to one big batch!

 

[homebrewdude76]

Still been "thinking" on this.
My lack of ability to silver solder the fittings on my tanks really slowed this down..

So now I am thinking of what I need for elements.
5500w for the BK
5500w for the HLT

A third element option for a future RIMS tube.
Been reading on these, and it seems a 220v element running at 120v is a good option. I am not into step mashes.

So I would have a switch to allow the BK or the RIMS to be on.
But not both at the same time.
This should keep me within the 50a limit.

Trying to determine how many PID's I need.
I am thinking just three

 

[duckdogs]

You could get away with 2 if you put say your BK & the tube on a switch so they couldn't be fired at the same time. You don't need a sensor in the BK just one connected to the PID. Use the sensor in the tube.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[homebrewdude76]

Yes, I could do that.

But I want to be able to heat my mash and sparge water in the HLT and BK at the same time.
Then pump Sparge water into the HLT after the mash-in.
All to speed up the water heating process.

So I would need a PID and temp probe for each element.
Not a big deal, it is just money

Also might simplify wiring depending on if I run a 220v or 120v RIMS element?
Not sure yet. Could I make this an option with a selection switch?

 

[homebrewdude76]

Any reason to go with a PID with a timer?
Is it just a money thing?

 

[duckdogs]

With the switch option you could still run the HLT and BK at the same time. depending on how your plumbing would be set up, if you wanted to heat the water in the BK to say 160 just cycle it threw the tube past the probe the PID would regulate the temp firing the BK element rather than the tube element.

1 PID dedicated HLT
2 PID switched to fire either the BK or your tube

I'm sure there's a PJ diagram here someplace for this setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[duckdogs]

Never really needed a timer myself, I normally run Beersmith and use it's timer.


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[homebrewdude76]

Still not made much progress on this...
Been trying to solder 2" sanitary fittings. I give up. Looking for a TIG guy now.

My origial plan was to have a 2" fitting on the bottom of the pot.
This was to allow for a full dump cleanout without moving the pot from the stand.
I think the pros and cons on this show I should not do it.
If I have a 2" fitting on the bottom with 45degree elbow for dumping in the bucket.
The pot will never sit flat, unless it it in the special spot with a hole in the stand.
I will have wort sitting in the area during the boil
I will have a 2" sanitary fitting with disconnect on the side to quickly remove the elemtent.
Am I too lazy to tip and clean a 20gal pot???

Think I will just have a 2" sanitary on the side for the elemtent.
Standard spigot/valve in the front with a provision for a thermo port for the PID.
Inside dip tube with screen running on the side.

My worry about cleaning leaf hops might go away when I go to a hop spyder and pellet hops.

 

[homebrewdude76]

I gave up on the custom pots.
Sold all my stainless tanks/kegs and pots.

So now I have cash in hand to buy two pots ready for electric brewing.

Looking for brew pot and HLT.
20gal size
2" triclamp on the sides for electric elements
triclamp on the front for draining

Any thoughts on companies that make these?