Home Brew Shelf Life

[user 338926]

My question to you is, how do you clarify the beer? Cold crash after fermantation? I don't have any way as of right now to do that, unless I put it in my serving keg and stick it in my kegerator and let it set for a length of time.

Here is a necessary piece of my Brew Day equipment.

That spatula is what I use to scrape the top of the beer both before it gets to a boil, as soon as it gets to a boil, and then basically the whole time that it's boiling. I am scooping foam and getting rid of the loose protein absolutely all the time. I also use a propane burner and I boil the hell out of that wort. It's pretty rare for me to not have at least a mild boil over, but you have to boil it super hard to get all that stuff to come up to the surface in the foam so you can get rid of it. Do that and you're clearing process becomes easier.

Then yes, cold crashing also. But a lot of times I don't cold crash until after it's kegged. I do what I see some people here call a mild crash or something like that, lower it to about 60 to slow the yeast down the last little bit and then keg it. The idea being to try to not have it suck air back in and get oxygen to it when you lower the whole fermenter down to 35. Once it's in the keg, I take her right down to 32 or sometimes 30, 29, don't care, it can't freeze and even if it does a little bit, I still don't care. I want it clear. Not every beer, but the beers that are to be clear, I want them clear. That said, every beer I make I boil as hard as I can possibly make it boil. At least for a good 10 minutes I have it going to where I've got to have my hand on the valve to cut the flame.

I did a double decoction today and that's my first ever time for one of them. It was astonishing how clear the work was after I left it sit in the kettle for a while. I was also using one of those bucket filter things the guys talked about in another thread. First time for that too. Now that is not very clean, but boy was the stuff at the top and really down to about the last half inch in the kettle it was clear as a bell. Much more stratified than I have seen with my previous single infusion mashes.

 

[user 338926]

You might want to visit this thread and rant over there. You will find lots of emotional support for your passionate view on the subject. I like them both, clear and hazy, as long as they are done well. The ones that are hop flavor driven do not last as long on the shelf. Tastes have changed a lot over the years. I am guessing a lot of people would find the beer that was brewer 100 or 200 years ago disgusting and think it was contaminated. But there is a whole following for that sort of thing now, they call it funky or wild. I don't much like it but that does not make it bad or wrong or defective. I would guess those beers might change a lot if stored a long time.

I like them all when they're good also, my problem is that I don't want to brew those kinds of beers at 9% where I have to drink the whole 10 gallons in a 2 week period or I just want to throw it away. It makes for a rough couple weeks.

If you've ever watched the program, How Beer Saved the world, it's a documentary and it's pretty good. In there they talk about how the people who drank beer survived and the people who drank water died from the plagues. My guess would be then that the beer was not contaminated and had no bacterial infections whatsoever. I'm pretty sure that humans did not acquire a taste for mold and bacteria a couple hundred years ago. I'm betting the beers were probably pretty good. Maybe Superior to today's.

I'm drinking a beer right now that is rather hazy. It's a kölsch type beer, I'm not allowed to call it kölsch here. In Germany they filter it and serve it extremely young, here I simply drink it Young. It does take it about a month to clear completely. During that time, you can drink it literally every day and notice change in the beer. That's not to say that it's ever terrible, but if you drink it 30 days in a row you had 30 different beers. This is a 25 IBU 4.2% beer. It can become a little dryer and it's still great. When it is sweet day one out of the fermenter, it's great then too. The sweetness is very subtle, it's not trying to overpower something else. So when it becomes a little dryer, once again there's nothing to overpower. It's vastly different than a beer made with so much hops it's at the limit of isomerization. When they get a little dryer, you've probably got a serious balance issue.

 

[user 338926]

My problem was more logistics than impatience; I simply couldn’t brew often enough to keep beer around to age. As I have aged, and my work load reduced, I have dedicated more time to brewing and keep a couple kegs in the batters box while one is on tap. I am also working towards outfitting my kegs with floating dip tubes. Both of these have resulted in much clearer beer.

One other thing that affects clarity is serving temperature. I think most people prefer beer very cold. I do also. If so, you end up with excessive chill Haze. My beers suffer from that longer than they should because I run my Kegerator at 32 to 34. If I was to even raise that to 38, my beer would clear even more, or at least it would appear clear a lot sooner.

 

[redrocker652002]

I like them all when they're good also, my problem is that I don't want to brew those kinds of beers at 9% where I have to drink the whole 10 gallons in a 2 week period or I just want to throw it away. It makes for a rough couple weeks.

If you've ever watched the program, How Beer Saved the world, it's a documentary and it's pretty good. In there they talk about how the people who drank beer survived and the people who drank water died from the plagues. My guess would be then that the beer was not contaminated and had no bacterial infections whatsoever. I'm pretty sure that humans did not acquire a taste for mold and bacteria a couple hundred years ago. I'm betting the beers were probably pretty good. Maybe Superior to today's.

I'm drinking a beer right now that is rather hazy. It's a kölsch type beer, I'm not allowed to call it kölsch here. In Germany they filter it and serve it extremely young, here I simply drink it Young. It does take it about a month to clear completely. During that time, you can drink it literally every day and notice change in the beer. That's not to say that it's ever terrible, but if you drink it 30 days in a row you had 30 different beers. This is a 25 IBU 4.2% beer. It can become a little dryer and it's still great. When it is sweet day one out of the fermenter, it's great then too. The sweetness is very subtle, it's not trying to overpower something else. So when it becomes a little dryer, once again there's nothing to overpower. It's vastly different than a beer made with so much hops it's at the limit of isomerization. When they get a little dryer, you've probably got a serious balance issue.

Kinda curious if you would be willing to share the recipe? I am looking to try and branch out. I had a Helles beer the other day that I really liked. Black lager that a user here sent me that was outstanding.

 

[redrocker652002]

I think all posts have something to offer as long as they are not nasty or degrading. I like his posts, gotta see the other side, right? Keep it coming. I am learning as I go. Rock On!!!!!!!

 

[user 338926]

Kinda curious if you would be willing to share the recipe? I am looking to try and branch out. I had a Helles beer the other day that I really liked. Black lager that a user here sent me that was outstanding.

Well the recipe I use is undergoing changes because I'm informed around here that it's not traditional enough. Today I made it again but I made a double decoction and I switched up the Hops in order to use one of the four varieties grown in Germany instead of a hybridized version of one of them from the us. I'm pretty confident it's not going to change a whole lot. As to the grain bill, that also is undergoing a small change. In spite of already using Weyermann Vienna, I'll be ordering a bag of there Barke Pilsner or 2 row Pale malt to replace the Briess 2R pale malt that I use now. Evidently using things readily available in the United States at reasonable pricing , is not traditional enough.

My recipe: roughly 70/30 pale/Vienna. 20-25 ibus hops. Mash@149 or any other temp really. Ale yeast and enough of it. Ferm @ low 60s F. Cold condition. Don't let it get warm and it's impossible to screw it up.
There's a whole thread full of other people's recipes.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/best-grain-bill-for-a-authentic-kolsch.724157/
I keep my recipes simple, so I use the two malts and one hops added for 60 minutes. For a 10 gallon batch I use 13/5 lb and 2.5oz. I use dap and Wyeast nutrient and a kick carrageenan tablet. I think I use a yellow balanced profile from Bru'n water. I'd be happy to share it if you wanted it.

Read here for some tips and guidelines
https://www.bjcp.org/style/2021/5/5B/kolsch/

 

[RM-MN]

I also use a propane burner and I boil the hell out of that wort. It's pretty rare for me to not have at least a mild boil over, but you have to boil it super hard to get all that stuff to come up to the surface in the foam so you can get rid of it. Do that and you're clearing process becomes easier.

I boil my wort as slowly as I can and stir in the foam rather than removing it. My beers still clear and I don't have to clean up a boil over.

 

[RM-MN]

I'm pretty sure that humans did not acquire a taste for mold and bacteria a couple hundred years ago.

Research cheese and the history of making cheese.

I'm lactose intolerant and eating cheese was one of the ways I got the needed calcium since I couldn't drink milk.

 

[MicroMickey]

I entered an 8 yr. old London Brown Porter in a competition and got a 46/50 score. This beer had been stored in the garage where it was subjected to the heat of the summer and cold of the winter. So much for being delicate.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Survivorship bias?

 

[Komodo]

I’ve still got about a case of a 5 year-old Imperial Porter (15%) that held a decent amount of carb and is probably peaking right now.

 

[Nixter]

Summing up:

• Best practices good sanitation and low O2 storage help extend shelf life to preserve original flavor profiles.
• Temperature fluctuation and high temps in particular accelerate flavor change on a scale depending on ABV, with high ABV's remaining more stable over time; lower ABV's less stable over time.
• Historically highly hopped beers did degrade while being transported on ships, sitting on shelves- they were mostly protected from the worse effect of time and temperature it was speculated.
• Flavor change over time, can be a positive result, even an award winning result, until it's not. A certain amount of flavor degradation, even if undesirable, is acceptable to some.
• It's possible to make your own soy sauce by purchasing a commercially made stout and allowing the unnamed stout to slowly oxidize for up to 24 years
• Some people like to drink beer and rant about how much they don't like NEPIA's in forum posts.

 

[AlbertaBeer]

I thought the goal was to match your drinking to the production so you don’t end up with any beer sitting around too long

 

[Broken Crow]

I thought the goal was to match your drinking to the production so you don’t end up with any beer sitting around too long

I thought the goal was to acheive adequate production to not run out...and maybe have some variety of choice.

 

[Ridenour64]

Summing up:

• Best practices good sanitation and low O2 storage help extend shelf life to preserve original flavor profiles.
• Temperature fluctuation and high temps in particular accelerate flavor change on a scale depending on ABV, with high ABV's remaining more stable over time; lower ABV's less stable over time.
• Historically highly hopped beers did degrade while being transported on ships, sitting on shelves- they were mostly protected from the worse effect of time and temperature it was speculated.
• Flavor change over time, can be a positive result, even an award winning result, until it's not. A certain amount of flavor degradation, even if undesirable, is acceptable to some.
• It's possible to make your own soy sauce by purchasing a commercially made stout and allowing the unnamed stout to slowly oxidize for up to 24 years
• Some people like to drink beer and rant about how much they don't like NEPIA's in forum posts.

This is a solid summary of posts up to this point. All readers can start here and be confident they are up to speed.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

One other thing that affects clarity is serving temperature. I think most people prefer beer very cold. I do also. If so, you end up with excessive chill Haze. My beers suffer from that longer than they should because I run my Kegerator at 32 to 34. If I was to even raise that to 38, my beer would clear even more, or at least it would appear clear a lot sooner.

Cold beer is good; no doubt. When things start cooling off in the late fall, I suspend refrigeration. My beer is in a utility room off my carport. There are 2 freezers, my keezer and the hot water tank in there. Through the winter, temperatures stay between 40 and 50 in there. For me, that’s a good temperature for my Irish Dry Stout. It’s only been in the past week that I had to break down and put my kegs in the keezer. But again, cold beer is good, especially after mowing the grass. Cheers!

I should have said, even my keezer is set to just 45°. Consider; if you’ve just finished cutting grass, or hoeing the garden in the sunny South, 45° is a very cold beer.

 

[AlbertaBeer]

I thought the goal was to acheive adequate production to not run out...and maybe have some variety of choice.

No no no. That is you you create an infinite loop lol

 

[mac_1103]

I simply couldn’t brew often enough to keep beer around to age. As I have aged, and my work load reduced, I have dedicated more time to brewing

So your beers didn't age but you did? Sounds familiar.

 

[passedpawn]

Summing up:

• Best practices good sanitation and low O2 storage help extend shelf life to preserve original flavor profiles.
• Temperature fluctuation and high temps in particular accelerate flavor change on a scale depending on ABV, with high ABV's remaining more stable over time; lower ABV's less stable over time.
• Historically highly hopped beers did degrade while being transported on ships, sitting on shelves- they were mostly protected from the worse effect of time and temperature it was speculated.
• Flavor change over time, can be a positive result, even an award winning result, until it's not. A certain amount of flavor degradation, even if undesirable, is acceptable to some.
• It's possible to make your own soy sauce by purchasing a commercially made stout and allowing the unnamed stout to slowly oxidize for up to 24 years
• Some people like to drink beer and rant about how much they don't like NEPIA's in forum posts.

Dragon Stout. From Jamaica. Aged, great with wasabi and la Choy chop suey