Hobart Boil Kettle

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Egas1949

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So I couldn't pass up the price on a pair of 5 gallon stainless steel Hobart mixing bowls. Nice round bottom as you'd expect for a commercial type mixer. I plan using one for a mash tun and the other as the kettle. A fitting on the very bottom should make draining damn near everything easy.

1.I'm puzzling how to add an element to the boil kettle, because of that curved bottom. I was thinking of using a spa heating element and it should settle into the curve of the bowl. Any thoughts? Has anyone used similar vessels?

2.I've run myself crosseyed trying to hash out wiring a control panel. Biology is my thing, not electricity. The plan is to keep things simple; two pumps, one 120V element, and one PID. I'd appreciate if somebody could explain it to me like I'm 5 or point me to a resource that does so. Thanks in advance to all.
 
Egas1949 said:
So I couldn't pass up the price on a pair of 5 gallon stainless steel Hobart mixing bowls. Nice round bottom as you'd expect for a commercial type mixer. I plan using one for a mash tun and the other as the kettle. A fitting on the very bottom should make draining damn near everything easy.

1.I'm puzzling how to add an element to the boil kettle, because of that curved bottom. I was thinking of using a spa heating element and it should settle into the curve of the bowl. Any thoughts? Has anyone used similar vessels?

2.I've run myself crosseyed trying to hash out wiring a control panel. Biology is my thing, not electricity. The plan is to keep things simple; two pumps, one 120V element, and one PID. I'd appreciate if somebody could explain it to me like I'm 5 or point me to a resource that does so. Thanks in advance to all.
Click to expand...

I saw a huge one of those years ago at a used restaurant supply store. If you had the whole mixer and heated from the bottom mashing with the mixer going just think of the mash eff you could get out of it. :)
 
Egas1949 said:
I know right!
For more context, here's an outline of what I was planning to try. A 2-vessel, 120V set-up for 2.5/3 gal batches.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1HxIkoLTnHJ9X-yZwAEboJhyoR8WD5muwNdDqAGAyQvo/edit?usp=sharing
Click to expand...

Have you considered No-sparge...I've only done this once last year with no ill affects, but am considering it as standard practice per this:
http://brulosophy.com/2014/08/27/no-sparge-brewing-with-a-beersmith-tutorial/

I only have a 2-vessel system, so this would speed up my day and solve some other issues since I don't have a HLT.
 
With my two vessel system, MLT and BK, I use the BK as the HLT and 10gal cooler as MLT with 120V RIMs for MLT recirculation. This meant I had to use a lauter grant (LG) to collect my sweet wort while sparging. With No-sparge I can forgo the LG and go straight to BK and start heating the BK sooner. With full volume in the BK during recirculation I have less chance of stuck mash.

When I fill my BK it has always been from the bottom valve, and the last brew day I filled the MLT from the bottom (subletting) with the grain already in the MLT. I had no dough balls and only needed to stir once filled. Worked great. For some reason the strike temp came in a little low for this method, so next time I will add a couple degrees to the strike water, but with the RIMs I was able to bring it up t0 strike temp easily anyway.

From your pics it looks like you could simplify if you did away with the upper fill arm by filling from the bottom. At least something to consider. Although for whirl pool you may need the upper arm for the BK. oh well.

For heating, considering the bottom shape, this may give you some ideas:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm
 
PlexVector said:
With my two vessel system, MLT and BK, I use the BK as the HLT and 10gal cooler as MLT with 120V RIMs for MLT recirculation. This meant I had to use a lauter grant (LG) to collect my sweet wort while sparging. With No-sparge I can forgo the LG and go straight to BK and start heating the BK sooner. With full volume in the BK during recirculation I have less chance of stuck mash.

When I fill my BK it has always been from the bottom valve, and the last brew day I filled the MLT from the bottom (subletting) with the grain already in the MLT. I had no dough balls and only needed to stir once filled. Worked great. For some reason the strike temp came in a little low for this method, so next time I will add a couple degrees to the strike water, but with the RIMs I was able to bring it up t0 strike temp easily anyway.

From your pics it looks like you could simplify if you did away with the upper fill arm by filling from the bottom. At least something to consider. Although for whirl pool you may need the upper arm for the BK. oh well.

For heating, considering the bottom shape, this may give you some ideas:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been following that blog and will likely run the set up as a full-volume, no-sparge.

The fill arm, I plan to use for recirculation in the mash tun. It may not be immediately clear in the pics but the whole thing is pretty much just linking two circulation loops (the MT loop for recirculation and the BK loop for whirlpooling) with some valves so that liquid can be shunted back and forth. The fill arm is part of that MT loop and since it can swivel back into the BK, I can use it to cross-circulate between the MT and BK if I need to add and distribute some heat, e.g. warming everything up before doughing in.
 
Regarding the heat-stick, I did think about that quite a bit. But I was trying to design the system to be a self-contained cabinet as much as possible and didn't like the idea of plugging into a separate outlet or having and outlet on the outside of the cabinet. Plus it might get crowded with the heat stick and the immersion chiller in the BK. Although the idea of a combo immersion chiller/heat stick/hop basket sounds pretty cool.
 
Egas1949 said:
So I couldn't pass up the price on a pair of 5 gallon stainless steel Hobart mixing bowls. Nice round bottom as you'd expect for a commercial type mixer. I plan using one for a mash tun and the other as the kettle. A fitting on the very bottom should make draining damn near everything easy.

1.I'm puzzling how to add an element to the boil kettle, because of that curved bottom. I was thinking of using a spa heating element and it should settle into the curve of the bowl. Any thoughts? Has anyone used similar vessels?

2.I've run myself crosseyed trying to hash out wiring a control panel. Biology is my thing, not electricity. The plan is to keep things simple; two pumps, one 120V element, and one PID. I'd appreciate if somebody could explain it to me like I'm 5 or point me to a resource that does so. Thanks in advance to all.
Click to expand...

The easiest since it is only 120V / 2.5 gal would be to forgo the PID because it will be going full bore anyway to boil. And just use a power switch to control on and off as needed.

Same for strike temperature; monitor the temperature, since you will need to stir it and cut it off when you reach temp. Worry about the cost of a PID, SSR, and heatsink, etc later. That way your brewing sooner and after a few brew days and more reading design a PID system for it. Usually its best to do things manually first and then automate. :)
 
That's what I'm leaning towards currently. I may just get some 12v DC wall warts for the pumps with inline switches and maybe a variable controller for the element, plug it all into a GFCI power strip (three outlets) in the cabinet. I have the items wish-listed on Amazon. If I go that route, the only issue left is how to mount an element. The vessel is about 13in diameter at the top and has a rounded bottom. Looks like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hobart-A200...341877?hash=item567ee85175:g:2LkAAOSwgQ9VkZ~-
 
Egas1949 said:
That's what I'm leaning towards currently. I may just get some 12v DC wall warts for the pumps with inline switches and maybe a variable controller for the element, plug it all into a GFCI power strip (three outlets) in the cabinet. I have the items wish-listed on Amazon. If I go that route, the only issue left is how to mount an element. The vessel is about 13in diameter at the top and has a rounded bottom. Looks like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hobart-A200...341877?hash=item567ee85175:g:2LkAAOSwgQ9VkZ~-
Click to expand...

Be sure to get Wall warts that can supply enough current to the pumps. I use the 24V DC pumps which are 800mA, so a common 500mA wall wart won't work. Probably the next most common would be a 1A wall wart for example.

I don't recall what the current requirements for the 12V pump is.

EDIT: Looked up the 12V on Amozon and low and behold they are 500mA. But please check the specific pump you have.

Pro-tip: before screwing onto the pumps plastic NPT threads--work the threads of whatever SS coupling with another SS male threaded part first to make sure it's okay and no burrs. Then use a little extra white teflon tap (white is food grade) and don't over tighten. The neck of the pump can be a little fragile.
 
PlexVector said:
Be sure to get Wall warts that can supply enough current to the pumps. I use the 24V DC pumps which are 800mA, so a common 500mA wall wart won't work. Probably the next most common would be a 1A wall wart for example.

I don't recall what the current requirements for the 12V pump is.

EDIT: Looked up the 12V on Amozon and low and behold they are 500mA. But please check the specific pump you have.

Pro-tip: before screwing onto the pumps plastic NPT threads--work the threads of whatever SS coupling with another SS male threaded part first to make sure it's okay and no burrs. Then use a little extra white teflon tap (white is food grade) and don't over tighten. The neck of the pump can be a little fragile.
Click to expand...

@PlexVector: do you have a link to where you got your pumps? I've been considering the US Solar pumps, topsflo and have noted people have been using "tan" pumps (which some question their food safety).
 
Egas1949 said:
@PlexVector: do you have a link to where you got your pumps? I've been considering the US Solar pumps, topsflo and have noted people have been using "tan" pumps (which some question their food safety).
Click to expand...


There are several sellers that pretty much sell the same pump. I went with this one for reasons I don't remember.
I use it with my RIMs setup on the mash tun since i'm looking for low flow with minimum cavitation. I still use a ball valve with it only when I'm having trouble with a stuck mash. Last weekend I ran the pump at 30% and then tweaked the ball valve a little. For BK whirlpool and transfer to fermentor I use a chugger for greater flow rate.

Pumps:
eBay "seller25812" Solar DC 12V 24V Hot Water Circulation Pump Brushless
Motor Water Pump 6M 3M new (251478928442)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25147892844...l?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=251478928442&_rdc=1

I got two of the 24V pumps for $35. Just be careful not to over tighten when connecting or you'll break the neck. Pro-tip: Work out the rough spots of your SS NPT threads with another mating SS NPT first, and use a little extra teflon tape.

Power supply for $19:
Input 100-240VAC
Output 24VDC 2.5A 60W Regulated
Switching Power Supply (120956183834)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12095618383...l?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=120956183834&_rdc=1

motor PWM controller, which seems to work well with the pump:
Motor DC 6-30V
12V 24V Max 8A PWM Speed Controller
With Digital Display & Switch (261678264066)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26167826406...l?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=261678264066&_rdc=1
 
PlexVector said:
There are several sellers that pretty much sell the same pump. I went with this one for reasons I don't remember.
I use it with my RIMs setup on the mash tun since i'm looking for low flow with minimum cavitation. I still use a ball valve with it only when I'm having trouble with a stuck mash. Last weekend I ran the pump at 30% and then tweaked the ball valve a little. For BK whirlpool and transfer to fermentor I use a chugger for greater flow rate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links! I'm only trying to move enough liquid for 3gal batches so I think I might try to source two pumps with a little more power. Topsflo type TS5 15pv is rated for 3gal per minute http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0075J6S3W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and get the following bits for power http://www.amazon.com/dp/B013QLXTVQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and connecting http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CMP434/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I think I can have two pumps ready to run for only a little more than the price of 1 march/chugger
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@PlexVector I noted in your set up you have a stir bar at the bottom of your kettle. How is that working out for you? Would you opt for that or for a bottom drain? Since my kettle is a rounded bottom with a 2inch flat spot in the center I originally planned to have a bottom drain. I might consider a pick-up tube coming in from the side instead, if a stir bar is that awesome.
 
Egas1949 said:
@PlexVector I noted in your set up you have a stir bar at the bottom of your kettle. How is that working out for you? Would you opt for that or for a bottom drain? Since my kettle is a rounded bottom with a 2inch flat spot in the center I originally planned to have a bottom drain. I might consider a pick-up tube coming in from the side instead, if a stir bar is that awesome.
Click to expand...

stir bar? What pic do you see that?
 
Egas1949 said:
Thanks for the links! I'm only trying to move enough liquid for 3gal batches so I think I might try to source two pumps with a little more power. Topsflo type TS5 15pv is rated for 3gal per minute http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0075J6S3W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and get the following bits for power http://www.amazon.com/dp/B013QLXTVQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and connecting http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CMP434/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I think I can have two pumps ready to run for only a little more than the price of 1 march/chugger
Click to expand...


You may want to do more research on that pump. I don't know if it can be variable voltage or PWM controlled based on it's "protection" description. Also, not sure if it is food grade or can handle restricted flow on the output. Also, The so called "tan" pumps have been generally considered food grade. I consider @augiedoggy the local expert on these types of pumps. :)

For the "connecting" if the screw terminals are exposed consider heat shrink tubing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
PlexVector said:
stir bar? What pic do you see that?
Click to expand...

My bad, I got turned around trying to recall a bunch of set ups I had looked at on here. I know Broth of Vigor has a set up with a stir bar. Any thoughts on that anyway?
 
Egas1949 said:
Thanks for the links! I'm only trying to move enough liquid for 3gal batches so I think I might try to source two pumps with a little more power. Topsflo type TS5 15pv is rated for 3gal per minute http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0075J6S3W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and get the following bits for power http://www.amazon.com/dp/B013QLXTVQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and connecting http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CMP434/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I think I can have two pumps ready to run for only a little more than the price of 1 march/chugger
Click to expand...
The tan pumps come in a few different configurations, the basic 24v 3gallon per minute version which I currently use and then there are more powerful versions all the way up to 5 gallons per minute.

The basic 12v version works fine but they do not pump as much as the basic 24v version

They are all food grade and were designed for this use. actually they were designed for drinking fountian use from what I have found but they are made of food grade PPS plastic and have fully coated sealed magnets that do not touch the liquid. Unlike the topsflo pump you linked which have 3 things going against it that I'm aware of.

1) the magnet is not coated and is exposed to the wort.

2 )since it was designed as a solar hot water pump it has MPPT technology built into it which is basically voltage buck/boost tech to take lower or higher curent or voltage and step it up to a higher or lower fixed amount to run the pump depending on varying power coming in from the solar panels powering it.

3) it has thermal protection built in which may cause it to shut down when attempting to pump boiling temp liquid..

Technically the type of plastic on the black topsflo is only rated to be foodsafe to 170degrees from what I've read but many state these are foodgrade even though the manufacturer themselves said in an email they are technically not because of the exposed magnet. Topsflo is a distributor of pumps from many other manufactures I dont think they actually manufacture or design any of them however they do give specs to meet when placing their orders like most modern companies that dont do their own manufacturing.

I had one of those pumps and learned this the hard way.

That said If you really want to buy a topsflo branded pump you can buy the generic tan pumps rebranded by them and sold for over twice the normal price for piece of mind :p I wouldnt bother myself...


I have 7 of the tan ones now 4 24v and 3 12v... I only use the 24v ones with a cheap pwm speed controller. I have 3 of them hardplumbed into my setup below... been using them for years with no issues. I bought them all from different sellers and they are all the same except they come in two color variants and different voltage/size motors. The parts are all 100% interchangable.
I will repeat the advice that you need a real powersupply not the underpowered and often mislabeled wall worts that are rated at power during a lightning strike...
You want at least 1 amp rms for each pump. I control all mine off one power supply mounted in my panel.
The number one reason these pumps get a bad rap is people try to pump grain through them and they are too small for that.
#2 reason is people do not use the correct power supply or the supply is starting to fail and they mistakenly blame the pump. #3 would be people drop them and break them... they are plastic and $20 not stainless and $150... use accordingly and they work awesome!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Holy schnikes! Thanks so much for this input. Do you have any sources that have those pumps, or what are the details for the 24v pumps that I should look for to identify the genuine article?
 
Egas1949 said:
Holy schnikes! Thanks so much for this input. Do you have any sources that have those pumps, or what are the details for the 24v pumps that I should look for to identify the genuine article?
Click to expand...

Heres a seller I bought one from... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-12V-2...hash=item43bd118cda:m:mSgMiufkzPpSR5DfSc9aVrQ
I dont think you have to worry about them not being genuine.. I havent heard of any inferior clones yet... they are made in 2 different factories though from what I have found.
I bought from here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-12V-2...hash=item4869c1fd4c:m:mjzh0lVm1iDsijuwd19ZMxg

and here too
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-DC-12...hash=item3a8d4fec3a:m:mkf5Az8zpwvbIPmdF10SGrA

and if you dont want to wait , heres a seller with US stock for 1/3 more$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YosooA-Sola...990911?hash=item25b43262bf:g:JKoAAOSwT~9WigFA
 
Great. I've seen the yoosoo pumps on Amazon so I can possibly bundle it with other stuff.
 
I think it was your set up I saw the stir bar in a bk. How's that working for you? Would you forgo a bottom center drain to keep the stir bar?
 
Egas1949 said:
I think it was your set up I saw the stir bar in a bk. How's that working for you? Would you forgo a bottom center drain to keep the stir bar?
Click to expand...

stir bar is not really needed in the boil kettle... I do set it up inside my hop spider sometimes when I have a lot of hops to keep them suspended I also use it in my hlt to ensure even temps.

It doesnt do much for whirlpooling with the element,spider and other stuff in my kettle. Honestly I havent needed to whirlpool the filtering components I use have worked great for me.
 
Hmmm. I'll stick with my bottom drain then and just use a whirlpool-type arm on the kettle return.

How did you wire your pumps and elements? I know you used a 24V ~6amp DC converter but how do both pumps (and anything else) get wired to it. I have little to no experience with electrical components. Cell Bio and microscopy were my bag, sorry to harass you with questions. :mug:
 
I have a VERY dumb question guys.

I was reviewing my parts list. The whole point of my design was to keep at standard household voltage so I can plug and play wherever I go. I have far flung friends and family that brew (or just like beer) and it would be fun to visit and be able to plug and play.

I sourced a 120v 1800W element, it's a coffeemaker element. HOWEVER, for that wattage and voltage I'm looking at 15A! I think my plug and play idea just **** the bed! Am I wrong? I hope I'm wrong, or their's a simple solution.
 
Egas1949 said:
I have a VERY dumb question guys.

I was reviewing my parts list. The whole point of my design was to keep at standard household voltage so I can plug and play wherever I go. I have far flung friends and family that brew (or just like beer) and it would be fun to visit and be able to plug and play.

I sourced a 120v 1800W element, it's a coffeemaker element. HOWEVER, for that wattage and voltage I'm looking at 15A! I think my plug and play idea just **** the bed! Am I wrong? I hope I'm wrong, or their's a simple solution.
Click to expand...

I dont believe you will be able to brew 5 gallon batches with one 1800w element... maybe im wrong but if it does work its going to take a lot of insulation and a long time to wait..

I used xlr connectors to connect the pump to my control box.
 
Yeah but a standard 120v outlet is probably 20A max. In which case I'm topping out running the element the pumps and pids, or am I wrong.
 
Egas1949 said:
Yeah but a standard 120v outlet is probably 20A max. In which case I'm topping out running the element the pumps and pids, or am I wrong.
Click to expand...

standard outlet is 15a max... 20a 120v outlets are different with the one horizonatal blade... you will want to use a 20a gfci kitchen outlet anyway (like this http://www.grainger.com/product/40L...2557!&ef_id=Vo7tIAAAAK2KTzAv:20160114134316:s ).
If you do there will be no problems powering the element,pid indicators and multiple pumps off of a single 24v powersupply inside your panel... everything but the element will take 2amps of you 120v power max and more like 1 amp in reality.. (a 7a 24v powersupply takes less than 1 amp at 120 ac is I remember right.) the pid doesnt even draw a quarter of an amp...

just remeber to buy a 120v 20a plug for your control panel so you arent tempted to plug into a 15a outlet.

Most people are using 240v for their homebrewing setups or 2 separate 120v 20a outlets on separate circuits for multiple 120v elements, but then again most are brewing more than 1 case at a time so..
 
TexasWine said:
Or downsize your element to 1500 watts and you can use any standard household outlet. It'll still be fine for 3 gallon batches.
Click to expand...

True,
Still wise to use a GFCI outlet though.
I was under the impression he was using a 3 gallon coffee maker with the coffee maker element built in
 
In thinking about it, I could go with three 500w cartridge heaters, wired in parallel. That out to do it.
 

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