High density cider

[Moose1231]

Hello everyone

I am planning to make a cider from apple juice (EdWort's recipe) but I wan't it to have a higher density. I want that because I want to do a black velvet (Half cider/half stout). In order to make a good one, you need to have a higher density cider so it stays in the bottom of the glass and a lower density stout. I already have my recipe for a stout and it will be around 1.010.

So how can I raise my fg on a cider without affecting to much the taste?

 

[hunter_le five]

How about doing a malted cider, like this graff? I figure if you add enough less-fermentable malt sugars, it should increase the gravity without affecting the taste too much. My batch of graff essentially consisted of 4 gallons of cider and one gallon of beer, and got a FG of 1.007 (as opposed to my straight ciders that ferment out below 1.000). I bet if you increase the amount of malt (or specialty grains) you could get it above 1.010.

Alternatively, you could ferment a dry cider, and once fermentation has completed, neutralize the yeast and back-sweeten with enough apple juice concentrate to raise the gravity level. AJ concentrate is fairly high gravity so I don't imagine it would take a whole lot to raise the gravity above 1.010.

 

[Moose1231]

Ok thanks, but if I put too much specialty grain, will it affect the tase. I was looking for a 1.015 fg cider maybe

 

[Moose1231]

So I was thinking about putting 1kg of LME and steeping 250g of Crystal 10L. If my calculations are good, with a apple juice density of roughly 1.044 and with the ppg added by the LME and crystal I am looking at an OG of 1.060. Since I want a density of let'S say 1.020, I need to have an attenuation of 66%.

Do any of you know which yeast should I use?

 

[GuldTuborg]

Why not just float the cider on top of the stout? That must be easier. Maybe I'm missing the point, though.

 

[Moose1231]

Why not just float the cider on top of the stout? That must be easier. Maybe I'm missing the point, though.

Haha, yes you are since the point is to float the stout on top oft the cider! The thing with the black velvet is that you start slowly with the stout which is normally very creamy and soft. Then your sips starts having more cider in it and by the end it's only cider. Since the cider is more acid than the stout, you want to start with sips of stout.

Like this :

 

[GuldTuborg]

I'm familiar with the drink, I was just missing the compelling reason for doing stout over cider rather than the reverse. I think you provided that reason here:

Since the cider is more acid than the stout, you want to start with sips of stout.

So the reason is a sensory one, in that you want to start with the stout, and not the cider. Makes sense. You are kegging, right? Most commercial ciders are pretty sweet, and not what Edwort's recipe makes, so I think backsweetening is probably the solution. Maybe some malto if you don't want it too sweet, but I wouldn't default to that.

 

[Moose1231]

What do you mean, default to that?

Sweet would be nice too. But malto would ferment practically all and that would just raise my OG, but barely my FG?. Maybe lactose would be a better choice, or just steeping more crystal

 

[GuldTuborg]

What do you mean, default to that?

Adding maltodextrin. I'd try sweetening the cider first, as that would make it more comparable to ciders most bars would use in this kind of application, I believe. I'd only add the malto if you found the cider was getting too sweet, yet you needed a higher gravity for it.

Malto won't ferment unless you're using wild yeasts or bacteria, and lots and lots of time.

Just FYI, too, a cider that finishes higher than 1.010 is going to be pretty darned sweet, unless some of that gravity comes from something less sweet than sugar. Maybe it will need to, to balance out a dry, roasty stout.

 

[Moose1231]

I'd try sweetening the cider first

Would something like that be good?

20 L of apple juice
1 kg of LME
.250 g of crystal 10L (steeped)
.250 g of Lactose

Yeast : maybe safale us-05?

We are looking at a fg of 1.020 I'd say. I'm afraid it's too much lactose though

 

[WVMJ]

Sweeten your cider with honey to the SG you want, it will be denser and the honey should blend in very will with your stout. WVMJ