HERMS Question

[billr1]

So here's a question that might require a bit of speculation. I'm just starting to plan and acquire parts for an eHERMS Keggle system I'm hoping to build. Basically I've got two kegs so far and I ordered this stainless wort chiller which I hope to repurpose as my HERMS coil: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Super-Efficient-50-Stainless-Steel-Wort-Chiller-/290350368599?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439a3b0757

I haven't received the coil yet but I was thinking that since the risers come up so high, maybe rather than trying to re-engineer it and run it through valves on the side of my HLT, I might run it right out the top of the keggle, thereby eliminating a couple holes I'd have to cut in the side of the tank, and a couple sets of bulkheads & valves I would have to buy. My question is, since this will mean a good chunk of the riser will be above the heated water in the HLT, will I lose a good deal of the heating efficiency of the HLT? Any thoughts?

 

[kal]

No - since most of the coil will still be below in the water. The rise is not a large portion of the coil.

You'd have to cut a couple of holes in the lid however (if you have one). Recommended to keep the lid on the HLT to avoid losing heat/steam.

I would (IMHO) do it right and go through the sides of the kettle. That's what I did. It also fixes the coil so that you don't end up bumping against the heating element. Punching holes is easy. I have instructions here.

Here's my HLT:

Kal

 

[BrewCrewKevin]

nice post, kal.

Yes, I agree. You'll be able to show it off a bit more if you seat them right in the side of the kettle. It's not that hard to do.

However, you're not losing much efficiency by having the stem above the pot. Heat is disappated based on surface area, which will be equidistant along the length of the pipe. So it will be proportional. If 1 foot is above your wort for a 25ft coil, then it will be 1/25=4% less efficient than the entire coil being immersed (roughly).

 

[billr1]

Thanks for the responses! Kal I've been using your site as a kind of home base/font of all eHERMS knowledge for this undertaking (which I've barely begun to undertake yet ) so your input is definitely appreciated. At this point I'm just throwing ideas around and trying to decide how "on the cheap" I'm going to do this so nothing is set in stone yet. One thing I will say however is I'm not even remotely interested in the whole "bling" factor - I just want to make the best beer possible and be able to repeat my processes. But yeah - I have considered the whole fixing-it-in-place issue. It's something I'll have to explore more when I'm further along (I haven't even had the lids cut off my keggles yet at this point).
Oh - and this coil is a 50' coil - so I'm thinking the efficiency loss will be even less significant then your example kevin - so that's cool.

 

[rollinred]

billr1,

You're in the same situation I'm in and I've decided to go along your questioned path. Running through the lid is going to give me a much more versatile piece of equipment. I don't want to, nor do I have the funds to have a separate HLT and boil kettle. The kettle must serve multiple functions.

What my plans have become is to build a lid out of wood or maybe better yet a poly cutting board (or something reasonably sturdy) and keeping my herms coil and a stirrer motor mounted in that permanently. Just lift the lid out and it is back to a boil kettle. A couple of cam lock disconnects and I would be off and running.

As for the heat loss. Even if you lose a degree or two more who cares, just bump up the temp to compensate and you'll never know the difference. I'm just trying to figure out how best to control the temp of the HLT when the coil is in it.

 

[billr1]

Sounds like a functional and nicely low-dough solution rollinred. One other reason (besides costs) I'm thinking of running the HERMS coil through the top of the HLT is running it through the side of the kettle would require somehow re-engineering it (i.e. bending those uprights to the run laterally or cutting them off and uncoiling some of the tubing or something of that nature). I feel a little too green at this to attempt something like that. And I figure, I can always add the side ports later if I decide to.
Forgive what is probably a stupid question as I'm fairly new to all-grain and have only fly-sparged thus far on my cooler system (gravity feeding sparge water from the HLT into the MT, while simultaneously collecting the runnings from the MT in my boil kettle - again via gravity). So I'm wondering how your HLT will double as a boil kettle? Will you collect your runnings in a third vessel and then just pour them into the HLT/BK when you're done lautering?

 

[rollinred]

I always drain my runnings into a couple of buckets and dump them back into the boil kettle after I have sparged. So it kind of goes something like this:

- Heat 8 gallons or so of water (depending on grain bill) to about 180-190 depending on outside temp and MLT temp
- Pump strike water into MLT and allow to sit in cooler for a bit to heat up inside
- Dough in and check temp. Splash mash around to lower temp to proper
- After mash vorlauf by recirculating through pump and then pump into bucket
- Pump sparge water into MLT and stir up good
- Empty unused water from HLT into bucket for sanatizer water or cleaning water.
- Dump first runnings into HLT/BK
- Recirc and empty sparge and pour into BK and verify proper pre-boil volume.


I also stir the wort up good and pull a hydrometer sample to get efficiency calculations but this isn't needed. You can also start the BK heating up while the batch sparge is going on and simply pump the sparge runnings straight into the boil kettle to cut some time down.

Really a pretty simple process and I don't see a need at all for separate dedicated HLT and BK. If I wanted to I could simply use another cooler and add a valve/cam lock fitting and never have to lift anything. If I ever get a free 10 gallon cooler I will do just that. Even a sturdy bucket with a valve so i didn't have to lift anything heavy. But if the sparge water is pumped straight back into BK the most I'll have to lift is like 3 gallons. Hardly a chore.

 

[billr1]

Gotcha. That's more or less what I guessed you did (and I'm pretty damn proud of myself for figuring it out ). Sounds like a really nice, workable and efficient operation!