Help with porter

[Brewpup506]

This is my second brew and I’m trying to DIY it. Any constructive suggestions on the recipe?

Malts
1lb Black patent
1lb crystal
.5 dark crystal
.5 wheat malt
.5 lbs brown sugar
6 lb amber liquid
2 lb dark liquid

Hops
.5oz cascade 60min
1 oz Kent Goldings 60 min
.5 fuggle last 10

Yeast:
WLP007

Going to rack over coffee beans and vanilla beans after primary

I feel like I’m faking it with a recipe it’s stupid when you’re learning I know but I like to hit the ground running. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Brewpup506]

6 galllon btw

 

[bkboiler]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/bee-cave-brewery-robust-porter.56768/

I’d build your own changes to a well established recipe and rebrew it a few times (changing one variable at a time) to understand how the changes affect the flavor. Seems like a lot of black patent and crystal at first glance and I’m not sure brown sugar is to style per se. I’ve seen some british porters use brewers caramel to hit color...

 

[Brewpup506]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/bee-cave-brewery-robust-porter.56768/

I’d build your own changes to a well established recipe and rebrew it a few times (changing one variable at a time) to understand how the changes affect the flavor. Seems like a lot of black patent and crystal at first glance and I’m not sure brown sugar is to style per se. I’ve seen some british porters use brewers caramel to hit color...

Thanks I’ll definitely take your advice

 

[BrewMan13]

I used to use a pound of BP in my porter, but have since dropped it to 12oz, and it's perfect, IMO. Definitely too much crystal there. I use just a half pound of C40 since I didn't want to be too prominent, but a pound of the crystal of your choice would still be ok. Wheat will surely get lost. Brown sugar will lighten the body/increase alcohol but probably not too much noticeable flavor with all the malts in there. As an extract brewer, to have maximum control over your brew, it's advisable to use extra light DME as the base fermentable, since it's like a blank slate.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Historically porters were super-simple recipes. In their heyday in the mid-19th century, they were typically 80-85% pale malt (probably Chevallier), 3% black malt and the rest brown malt (rarely with a bit of amber).

Three ingredients - all you need for porter.

Now you can make a bit of an argument for some crystal if you're using Otter instead of Chevallier, but not much, <5%.

I'd go for a lower-attenuating yeast than WLP007, like WLP002 or WLP041, you may need to rouse them though.

 

[ProblemChild]

Historically porters were super-simple recipes. In their heyday in the mid-19th century, they were typically 80-85% pale malt (probably Chevallier), 3% black malt and the rest brown malt (rarely with a bit of amber).

Three ingredients - all you need for porter.

Now you can make a bit of an argument for some crystal if you're using Otter instead of Chevallier, but not much, <5%.

I'd go for a lower-attenuating yeast than WLP007, like WLP002 or WLP041, you may need to rouse them though.

I agree with this 100%. Porters are fairly simple, and a porter recipe should start that way until you understand what each addition brings to the table.

Following the above, it is easy to run a batch of a porter, taste the results, then on the next batch do something like swap out half of the brown with C40 and see the change.



For yeast, I have really started liking WY1968 The sweetness plays well against the Black Patent and Brown malts. Traditionally an ESB malt, but does well for porters as far as I am concerned. Just keep fermenter temps low and do a Diacetyl rest.

 

[rhys333]

This is my second brew and I’m trying to DIY it. Any constructive suggestions on the recipe?

Malts
1lb Black patent
1lb crystal
.5 dark crystal
.5 wheat malt
.5 lbs brown sugar
6 lb amber liquid
2 lb dark liquid

Hops
.5oz cascade 60min
1 oz Kent Goldings 60 min
.5 fuggle last 10

Yeast:
WLP007

Going to rack over coffee beans and vanilla beans after primary

I feel like I’m faking it with a recipe it’s stupid when you’re learning I know but I like to hit the ground running. Thanks for the help guys!

You're recipe looks decent, though in my opinion the brown sugar isn't needed. It's actually similar to an all-grain recipe I have posted on here (minus the flavorings and sugar).

 

[Brewpup506]

I used to use a pound of BP in my porter, but have since dropped it to 12oz, and it's perfect, IMO. Definitely too much crystal there. I use just a half pound of C40 since I didn't want to be too prominent, but a pound of the crystal of your choice would still be ok. Wheat will surely get lost. Brown sugar will lighten the body/increase alcohol but probably not too much noticeable flavor with all the malts in there. As an extract brewer, to have maximum control over your brew, it's advisable to use extra light DME as the base fermentable, since it's like a blank slate.

Yea the brown sugar was more to bump my ABV. I’m using the brew log app to try to figure my numbers.

 

[ProblemChild]

FWIW - there are obviously many more things to say than can be absorbed in a chat room.

It seems a lot of folks brew from kit recipes only (which is fine of course) but a sense of the art is lost.

I am by no means an expert on mashing, water chemistry, micro-biology, or many of the other brewing related things.

I do know this - start simple, grow as you gain understanding and occasionally force growth by getting out of your comfort zone.

Take it step by step and be patient. Keeping it simple and getting good at simple is necessary for growth into awesome brewing.

 

[Brewpup506]

So, now I’m looking at
12 oz BP
1 lb c40
6 lb light extract
3 lb dark
1 oz roasted barley
4 lb otter if no chevalier

Yeast: wy1968 or wlp041 pending what they have at store

Look good? Any other thoughts? I’d like to brew tomorrow

 

[rhys333]

It's a fine take on a porter. I'd be tempted to drop the roasted barley. At 1 oz you won't get much, and if you do pick up any roast its more appropriate in a stout. Also, I'm keen on including brown malt in my porters for the complexity it adds. Use of the darker extracts may make up for this. The alternative is to go with all light extract and get all your porter characteristics from your grain additions. That way, you know that the flavors you're adding come from your choices rather than unknowns in the dark extract.

 

[Brewpup506]

How much yeast do you guys think? I’m planning on getting smack pack if they have it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The alternative is to go with all light extract and get all your porter characteristics from your grain additions. That way, you know that the flavors you're adding come from your choices rather than unknowns in the dark extract.

Agreed - light extract + steeping grains for darker ales is another good approach to brewing ambers / porters / stouts.

Briess does make the composition of their dark DME/LME available. They provide a nice summary here: http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/download-the-new-extracts-and-adjuncts-typical-analysis-flyer/ and individual product data sheets can be found here: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Extracts.htm

 

[Lefou]

How much yeast do you guys think? I’m planning on getting smack pack if they have it.

This can depend on your wort gravity - and the depth of your wallet. Liquid yeast can be expensive but it's a good way to get some unique character into your beer.
If you want to use liquid yeast it's a great way to go, just plug your ingredients into a brewing calculator. If your starting gravity is 1.050 or higher I would recommend making a starter with your yeast. If you don't want to do that, get two "smack packs" and add to the wort per directions.

**Confesssion**
For many of my beers I will underpitch, but many of my beers are 1.050 or lower - and I use White Labs packet cultures in approximately 500-750ml wort starters. Your method should be one you're comfortable with that works for you.

 

[z-bob]

I brewed a porter a few months ago that turned out very nice. All-grain it was 90% 2-row, 6% black patent, and 4% C20. (I was testing the limits of black patent) And I used S-33 yeast. I'm not sure if this helps with an extract recipe, but for a 4 gallon batch it was only half a pound of black malt and that was plenty. I think a whole pound in 6 gallons will be too much -- but not way too much.

Next time I brew it, I will adjust it just slightly: 90% pale ale malt, 5% black patent, 5% C20.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Just by way of explanation - you're unlikely to find Chevallier. Although it was the main barley variety in 19th century Britain, it disappeared completely during the 20th century. It's been brought back from a seedbank with the help of Crisp and is now being grown in tiny amounts - it was just a couple of fields, they may now be up to a farm or two. So it's rare, expensive, and only available through Crisp so if your store doesn't carry them then you'll be out of luck. It does taste amazing though, much richer than even its descendent Maris Otter.

To be honest, if you're going with extract then I'd stick with it, and not try to mess around with Otter, although I'd knock down the gravity a touch probably so replace 4lb Otter with 2lb of pale extract? Once you're trying to go for specific barley varieties then you're at the stage where you need to go all-grain.

If you have the choice, I'd probably go for WLP041, it's a bit fruitier than its cousin 002/1968. I'd broadly agree with the comments above on yeast, but check the dates on the yeast, if they're heading towards 6 months old then you probably need to make a starter regardless. And with liquid yeast, you need to make sure you aerate well, dry yeast are far more tolerant of under-aeration.

 

[Brewpup506]

Thank you everyone! Brew day is here I’ll let you know in 6-8 weeks how it went! Onto planning the next brew!

 

[ProblemChild]

If you have the choice, I'd probably go for WLP041, it's a bit fruitier than its cousin 002/1968. I'd broadly agree with the comments above on yeast, but check the dates on the yeast, if they're heading towards 6 months old then you probably need to make a starter regardless. And with liquid yeast, you need to make sure you aerate well, dry yeast are far more tolerant of under-aeration.

Love the heads up on the WLP041. Will have to give that go. +1 on aeration. Anecdotal evidence on my part, but lag times seems significantly reduced and time to FG reduced with a good aeration.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

WLP041 comes with the caveat that I've only used it once, in a pale that I made enough of a mess of that it's not really a fair test of the yeast. But you know when you're not thinking, and given a choice of beers, your hand just reaches out for one particular beer? That was the WLP041 out of a choice of the same wort fermented with four yeasts. So that's not a bad test and I definitely want to do more with it. I think people have been put off by the "Pacific" name, when recent DNA sequencing has shown it's a close cousin of WLP002 and WLP007, it's firmly "British".

At some point (maybe late 2019 at this rate) it would be interesting to do a test of WLP041 versus WLP002/1968 and yeast harvested from Fuller's 1845, I have a feeling that WLP041 may turn out to be more like the Fuller's yeast than WLP002, which doesn't quite have the citrus character you get from Fuller's to my mind.

Simplifying horribly - the main reason yeast need oxygen is to make sterols, which they need for making cell membrances and hence for cell division. So without enough oxygen, you'll limit the amount of yeast you can make, so fermentation will be slower. Dry yeast are grown at the factory in a way that maximises their reserves of sterols, so are less dependent on aeration to "get away".

 

[Brewpup506]

Final recipe
10oz BP
1lb crystal 40
3lb dark extract
8lb light extract
1lb otter

2 smacks WLP041

5oz cascade
1 oz Kent gold
5oz fuggle last 10 min

Steeping course ground coffee while cool down

Racking second over 2 bourbon killed vodka sterile vanilla beans

 

[Brewpup506]

Final recipe
10oz BP
1lb crystal 40
3lb dark extract
8lb light extract
1lb otter

2 smacks WLP041

5oz cascade
1 oz Kent gold
5oz fuggle last 10 min

Steeping course ground coffee while cool down

Racking second over 2 bourbon killed vodka sterile vanilla beans

Heading to the store thank you again everyone! I aspire to be as knowledgeable as you all one day

 

[z-bob]

Just a minute. That looks like a *lot* of hops. Are you sure about that? (if you are, that's fine)

Or did you mean 0.5? That's probably it. Carry on!

 

[Brewpup506]

Just a minute. That looks like a *lot* of hops. Are you sure about that? (if you are, that's fine)

Or did you mean 0.5? That's probably it. Carry on!

.5 lol

 

[tennesseean_87]

I'll just pipe in and say FFR, use all light extract. Get your character from the specialty grain you use yourself. That way, if you move up to all grain, all you have to do is swap your extract to base malt of the appropriate quantity and you're good to go.