Help with low efficiency

[caioz1jp]

SO my last couple batches I have been hitting very low efficiency. I am usualy .01 points lower on my SG/OG then my predicted @70% using beer smith. I have been able to hit my mash temps and my wort is very sweet to taste. But after my boils I still end up being low. I batch sparge and use a 12 gallon coleman square cooler with a mesh screen. The only thing i can think is my sparge temp is not higher enough. How important is hitting 168 on sparging? My beers are still tasting great but i feel like i have no control of my beers.

 

[MBTB]

I batch sparge with 170* water and have no issues. There are a couple of basics for good efficiency. One is a good crush of your grain. If you have your own mill, try setting the gap to .030" - .035" . If you don't have a mill, you could use a rolling pin to break up the grain a little more (but not into flour). Another is to mash with 1.25 qts. of water per lb. of grain and batch sparge with 2 qts. of water per lb. of grain. Total water quantity will then vary depending on your grain bill, but will get as much sugar off the grain as possible. None of this is LAW, but will help increase your efficiency and consistancy. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

First thing that comes to mind with low eff. is, well, two things....

1) How's your crush?
2) What's your mash pH?

 

[Hopper5000]

Have you changed you grains? Sometimes companies put out a bad batch of grains... also your thermometer could have become un-calibrated.

 

[caioz1jp]

The setting at my LHBS is .28 for the crush.
My pH is ~5.2+ .2.
My thermometer is calibrated to +0.1F.
I mash with 1.5qt/lb and sparge with the amount beersmith out puts. This is usually enough to hit about 1 gallon over my batch volume.
I lower to 1.25qt/lb when my sparge dips under about 2.5 gallons.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Hmm. That crush is way fine, but I've heard the finer the crush, the better the eff. I crush at ~.4 and get mid 70's. pH is perfect, everything seems to be in it's right place. You're saying you miss target by .01; like if you're shooting for 1.060 you'll get 1.050?

 

[caioz1jp]

Hmm. That crush is way fine, but I've heard the finer the crush, the better the eff. I crush at ~.4 and get mid 70's. pH is perfect, everything seems to be in it's right place. You're saying you miss target by .01; like if you're shooting for 1.060 you'll get 1.050?

Yes that is correct. Liek I said. Im wondering how much my sparge temp is hurtting me. Beer smith often says to heat it to 168F so if my mash is at 155 for example, im probably barely even ending up at 158 since teh grains cooler as im collecting.

 

[duboman]

My thoughts............

Are you sure the crush is .28? That seems very fine, almost pure flour, maybe a typo or misunderstanding? I mill at .35 and have to use rice hulls almost always to prevent stuck sparge.

Are you stirring your mash and doughing in well? If you are leaving dough balls and not agressively stirring up a good mix that can be a factor. Also when adding the sparge water it is important to stir the heck out the mash to knock all those sugars loose.

How much dead space is there in your tun, how much wort is being left behind and are you hitting your volumes properly?

Further, is the .01 the difference in the pre or post boil gravity or both. The above recommendations/questions will address pre boil, for post boil you can make adjustments by adding DME or boiling longer to get the OG you want.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Yes that is correct. Liek I said. Im wondering how much my sparge temp is hurtting me. Beer smith often says to heat it to 168F so if my mash is at 155 for example, im probably barely even ending up at 158 since teh grains cooler as im collecting.

I heat my sparge water to around 180 so I can have the grains in the high 160s when I sparge. I usually hit 165-170, but I'm not sure how much that would matter......

I like what this guy's pointing out:

My thoughts............

Are you sure the crush is .28? That seems very fine, almost pure flour, maybe a typo or misunderstanding? I mill at .35 and have to use rice hulls almost always to prevent stuck sparge.

Are you stirring your mash and doughing in well? If you are leaving dough balls and not agressively stirring up a good mix that can be a factor. Also when adding the sparge water it is important to stir the heck out the mash to knock all those sugars loose.

How much dead space is there in your tun, how much wort is being left behind and are you hitting your volumes properly?

Further, is the .01 the difference in the pre or post boil gravity or both. The above recommendations/questions will address pre boil, for post boil you can make adjustments by adding DME or boiling longer to get the OG you want.

Stirring the mash and sparge both will help with eff. Also, the .28 is super fine, I'm surprised you're not getting stuck at all. But with a crush like that, you'd want to be extra sure to destroy any dough balls in the mash.

 

[caioz1jp]

My thoughts............

Are you sure the crush is .28? That seems very fine, almost pure flour, maybe a typo or misunderstanding? I mill at .35 and have to use rice hulls almost always to prevent stuck sparge.

Are you stirring your mash and doughing in well? If you are leaving dough balls and not agressively stirring up a good mix that can be a factor. Also when adding the sparge water it is important to stir the heck out the mash to knock all those sugars loose.

How much dead space is there in your tun, how much wort is being left behind and are you hitting your volumes properly?

Further, is the .01 the difference in the pre or post boil gravity or both. The above recommendations/questions will address pre boil, for post boil you can make adjustments by adding DME or boiling longer to get the OG you want.

For the crush, I can only go by what the guy told me. They have a dial like a bank vault and it is set at 28. I have only had 1 stuck sparge but i was using SS mesh braid instead of a bazooka screen. I will have to double check next time I am there.

I have never had issues with dough balls or not being able to mash in in a timely manner.

When I add my sparge I stir for about 30seconds. Probably not as aggressive as I should.

My deadspace is 1 quart which should be figured into my cacl for OG and my volumes.

My 0.01 difference is post boil. I am hitting my target volumes so boiling longer isnt really solving my extraction efficiency. Post boil gravity is directly related to the pre-boil gravity so if my post boil is where i want it then my preboil was where it needed to be.

I refuse to adjust with DME or LME. First becuase I didnt invest in AG to use extract and second, my cost is only increasing which again defeats one of the pruposes of AG.

 

[duboman]

My 0.01 difference is post boil. I am hitting my target volumes so boiling longer isnt really solving my extraction efficiency. Post boil gravity is directly related to the pre-boil gravity so if my post boil is where i want it then my preboil was where it needed to be

While post and pre boil are related, they are not necessarily directly related. There are two efficiencies you need to consider. The first is the mash/lauter efficiency. This can be taken with a pre-boil gravity reading either with a refractometer or hydrometer (the hydrometer reading needs to be a cooled, temperature corrected reading. This will tell you what your mash/lauter efficiency is and if you are not taking one then you really have no idea what your extraction efficiency is.

The second efficiency is your total brewhouse which takes not only your mash/lauter number but also the boil and volumes into the primary and it appears from what you've stated that this is the number you are looking to improve but first you need to evaluate your mash/lauter efficiency.

You can have a great mash/lauter number and then screw up the boil and volumes and get a poor brewhouse number and the alternatively you can get the reverse as well to some degree.

So............... I owuld suggest:
1. verify the crush
2. Take a pre-boil gravity and evaluate your mash/lauter efficiency
3. Work on getting a consistent boil and rate of boil off
4. ensure all volumes are being met
5. RDWHAHB......in the end you will have beer!

To add: My suggestion of DME or boil time was merely nothing more than a suggestion as to how to make small corrections for the final product. I too am not a fan of adding DME as I figure either my beer will be slightly higher/lower ABV or I will get slightly more/less beer. That being said my mash/lauter efficiency is a consistent 80-83% and my brewhouse is 80% and I'm really not chasing anything more than that

 

[caioz1jp]

Thanks for the help everyone. Brewing next weekend so Ill apply everyones advice. Also, I didn't meen to sound offended by the DME thing. All or nothing baby

 

[duboman]

Thanks for the help everyone. Brewing next weekend so Ill apply everyones advice. Also, I didn't meen to sound offended by the DME thing. All or nothing baby

No worries and no offense taken, good luck, Cheers!