Help with GFCI Breaker Options

[Brettdow00]

I am wanting to convert my kettle to an electric setup. My plan is for the Blichmann BrewCommander that needs a 30 amp GFCI. Since I will be brewing in the laundry room, I was planning on buying an adapter to be able to plug in to the dryer outlet. I was just going to replace the 30 amp breaker that's currently supplying the outlet to a GFCI one. The problem is I cannot find one that will fit my current breakers?? It's a GE box, but the slim breakers- I believe 1/2", so the double pole would need to be 1" total I guess if that makes sense? I can only find normal size, 2" double pole gfci breakers. What are my options here? I know people use spa panels, but I would have to wire the spa panel to a dryer prong to plug into the outlet, then cut the BC's wire to fit in the panel box? If I do that, I don't think there are two hots for the brew commander. Has anyone ran into this problem before? Thanks in advance

 

[rsquared]

I built one of these a while back. It's basically a spa panel, but with an external plug.

 

[Brettdow00]

Thanks. That may be doable with what I have. I will look into the parts that I will need and see if I can come up with something.

 

[doug293cz]

Is your dryer outlet three wire or four wire? Many three wire input dryers "cheat" and use a small amount of 120V circuitry by using the ground connection as the neutral. This means there is current flowing in the ground during normal operation. Current flowing in the ground (actually anywhere other than in the two hots, and neutral if it exists) will cause a GFCI breaker to trip. So, depending on your dryer, you may not want to convert the circuit to GFCI in the main breaker panel.

Buying, or creating with a spa panel, a three wire extension cord with GFCI breaker will still allow the dryer to use the outlet.

Brew on

 

[Brettdow00]

Yeah, I think I am leaning towards the panel build like you two mentioned. Since I will be brewing only a few feet from the dryer outlet, I believe that will make the most sense.

 

[tracer bullet]

I've discovered that, often at least, the sticker information on the panel itself says what breakers can be used. Might give you a way to start looking for something uncommon, be able to do the corect search terms?

The panel idea is great to of course, possibly best, but thought I'd throw out that info in case it helps.

 

[rsquared]

For what it's worth, here's a picture of mine. The panel came prebuilt with the breaker for about $100 I think, then not much more for a dryer cord to go from the wall outlet to the panel, and the box and plug to attach to the side. Slightly different than the thread I linked, but that's where I got the idea. That short loop going from the panel to the plug was about a foot I borrowed from the dryer cord.

 

[kegkong]

Hi,
doug293cz helped me to figure out an in-line GFCI solution in the thread Another 240 Volt GFCI Question which avoids building a panel or messing with the breaker box. I simply unplug the adapter when it's time to dry the laundry.

Cheers,

 

[Bobby_M]

This is the absolute cheapest way to do it. Sometimes dryers will make GFCI trip so it's better to add the GFCI protection inline after the dryer outlet. I was able to fit this breaker into a Carlon 4x4x2" plastic junction box by cutting a square hole in the cover. You'll send your 3 wire cable through here.. Leave the ground uncut and passing through, then the two hots go through the breaker. It also gives you a way to positively shut down the power, which the BrewCommander does not have.

https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-32-240V-Circuit-Breaker-Sensing-Leakage/dp/B00NTVB0DS/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=din+GFCI+breaker&qid=1598932933&sr=8-3

 

[Brettdow00]

This is the absolute cheapest way to do it. Sometimes dryers will make GFCI trip so it's better to add the GFCI protection inline after the dryer outlet. I was able to fit this breaker into a Carlon 4x4x2" plastic junction box by cutting a square hole in the cover. You'll send your 3 wire cable through here.. Leave the ground uncut and passing through, then the two hots go through the breaker. It also gives you a way to positively shut down the power, which the BrewCommander does not have.

https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-32-240V-Circuit-Breaker-Sensing-Leakage/dp/B00NTVB0DS/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=din+GFCI+breaker&qid=1598932933&sr=8-3

So I plug in a dryer cord to my outlet, run the hots to the breaker but ground passes through, then hook up 10 awg wire coming out of the breaker, and wire the hots and ground to the L6-30 plugin and hook the BC up to that? Doesn't sound hard as long as it gives me the GFCI protection. I'm not very electrical savy so not sure why the ground passes through but that does sound like the cheapest way to do it.

 

[tracer bullet]

The sequence certainly sounds correct, and kind of perfect since you have 30A in the main panel itself and aren't adding something downstream even bigger. You are mostly concerned w/ cutting power from the pair of hot wires, so having them connected to the GFCI makes sense.

However... I'm interested to hear the specifics of the breaker, normally there's a white neutral pigtail coming off them, so they can... "compare" is the way it works in my head, and see if they need to trip. Bobby_M knows his stuff and I'm sure it's a good breaker choice, but I'd like to learn why.

 

[Bobby_M]

I actually sent the manufacturer an email because they have it listed as a 240v 1 Pole + Neutral which is counterintuitive. I can't imagine how a breaker rated for 240v would be able to work properly with only one hot leg going through it. GFCI breakers for 240 will either be pure 240v or 240/120. The latter would have the neutral lug and pigtail and those would technically be called 2pole + neutral. They are more sophisticated because it compares the sum total of current leaving and returning on all three conductors. If they are different by a few miliamps, it trips. On a pure 240 circuit, such as that required by the brew commander, there is no neutral wire in play at all. Don't take my advice until I verify that I'm not full of crap. I bought one of these breakers to play with.

 

[doug293cz]

I actually sent the manufacturer an email because they have it listed as a 240v 1 Pole + Neutral which is counterintuitive. I can't imagine how a breaker rated for 240v would be able to work properly with only one hot leg going through it. GFCI breakers for 240 will either be pure 240v or 240/120. The latter would have the neutral lug and pigtail and those would technically be called 2pole + neutral. They are more sophisticated because it compares the sum total of current leaving and returning on all three conductors. If they are different by a few miliamps, it trips. On a pure 240 circuit, such as that required by the brew commander, there is no neutral wire in play at all. Don't take my advice until I verify that I'm not full of crap. I bought one of these breakers to play with.

That breaker is designed for European single phase 240V power, where there is only one hot and a neutral. It also doesn't meet the USA's GFCI code that requires tripping on a 5mA current imbalance (i.e. leakage.) The European requirement is to trip at 30mA of current imbalance. 30mA will give you a pretty good shock, but isn't enough to be fatal under normal circumstances.

Brew on

 

[tracer bullet]

I just picked up one of these:

https://www.widespreadsales.com/Pro...MI-I6966fJ6wIVUNbACh1bHAPeEAQYAiABEgI-OPD_BwE
I am going to repurpose an existing 10-2 wire (2x 10 gauge wires + ground) and attach it to this. The 2 hot wires of course go to the breaker on the outside legs, the ground will go to the bar in the box itself. Then the white wire will stretch over to that bar in the panel (which is sorta the same as ground). My understanding is it'll work correctly as a GFCI even without that middle connection from an extra wire.

Sorry, not trying to derail the thread or talk about my setup, just offering ideas. Hope they help, and hope I'm not totally wrong here. Options are good! Assuming of course they work, and are safe.

I still definitely agree to adding an auxiliary box, that plugs into the dryer outlet. In my case, I was lucky and had an unused wire that I could do what I wanted with.

 

[Bobby_M]

That breaker is designed for European single phase 240V power, where there is only one hot and a neutral. It also doesn't meet the USA's GFCI code that requires tripping on a 5mA current imbalance (i.e. leakage.) The European requirement is to trip at 30mA of current imbalance. 30mA will give you a pretty good shock, but isn't enough to be fatal under normal circumstances.

Brew on

If that's the case, despite the trip current difference, it seems that it should work as L1/L2 instead of hot/neutral. Only one way to find out.

 

[doug293cz]

If that's the case, despite the trip current difference, it seems that it should work as L1/L2 instead of hot/neutral. Only one way to find out.

I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work with L1/L2.

Brew on