Help with beer smith

[Steampunk]

I have had some weird issues with beersmith specifically with gravity estimates. Weird in that my preboil gravity is often either 10 points greater than estimated or 6 points under what is estimated with no rhyme or reason.

Also on a 60 minute boil it is calculating a 10 point increase in gravity where as I normally get 5-7 tops. Evap rate set to 14%.

When I overshoot preboil it ends up balancing out within a point or two of gravity. When I undershoot preboil I am screwed.

Not sure why I am getting these swings or why i can't get consistently accurate predictions.

I should also not I do no sparge. So set up for mash is brew in bag. I leave about 3 liters behind in mashtun and 4 liters in trub loss. Yaya I know terrible efficiency. I can live with that.

Any ideas ?

 

[kh54s10]

Are the 7 liters that you are leaving behind accounted for in your equipment profile? Are the volumes that are predicted what you are actually ending up with? If not, you need to make changes so that Beersmith is making its calculations based on what you actually achieve.

As to the swing in preboil gravity, are you getting the same crush on your grains each time? Are you getting the proper preboil volume each time? If not, these would skew the gravity.

Why are you leaving so much wort in your tun and losing so much to trub? Pull the bag and transfer all the wort to your fermenter. Bag your hops to reduce the amount of trub. I lose at most a quart in my mash tun (3 tier system), a cup or 2 in my boil kettle and less that a quart in the trub in the fermenter.

 

[Gavin C]

Beersmith is extremely accurate if and only if you feed it extremely accurate data.

The boil-off is the obvious example. Your telling it one thing and reality is another. You need to measure various parameters and tell beersmith these things which are unique to your brewing.

Boil-off rate
mash-tun dead space
mash tun weight
mash-tun material
Kettle trub loss/deadspace
Grain absorption rate
hop utilization % (some people adjust this depending on setup)
Accurate measures of volume and gravity

These are just some examples I can think of. But it's a case of reality not matching the data you've given beersmith. get these accurate and the tool that is Beersmith becomes extremely useful

GIGO

 

[kh54s10]

Gavin said it so much better than I did........

 

[Steampunk]

Hey guys thanks here are the answers.

Boil off rate is correct based off last three brews this is entered on profile

Dead space and trub leave behind is also entered on profile. I leave the three liters behind as I find that last three liters comes with a lot more grains and gunk so intentionally leave it back. Same on the trub side. It's just a choice as if I cut off there I leave most of the break in kettle. I am fine with the wastage.

Mashtun weight and material also on profile.

Accurate measures I use an atc spectrometer and volume markings on kettle.

 

[Steampunk]

I am not actually biab. I am no sparge. But to get a no sparge set up in bs you have to use biab profile. I put full water volume in tun with false bottom with grains. And Lauter into boil kettle via pump

 

[kh54s10]

IDK, my preboil gravity is always pretty close unless I screw up somewhere. I still think it is an input number that does not line up with what is actually happening.

Have you checked that the kettle markings are accurate?

Try a batch where you do not leave all that precious wort behind. You will need to make adjustments to the BS inputs.....

 

[Oginme]

Hey guys thanks here are the answers.

Boil off rate is correct based off last three brews this is entered on profile

Dead space and trub leave behind is also entered on profile. I leave the three liters behind as I find that last three liters comes with a lot more grains and gunk so intentionally leave it back. Same on the trub side. It's just a choice as if I cut off there I leave most of the break in kettle. I am fine with the wastage.

Mashtun weight and material also on profile.

Accurate measures I use an atc spectrometer and volume markings on kettle.

You leave 3 liters behind when you drain the mash tun, how is this measured?

When you calculate boil off rate, are you correcting for thermal expansion? I usually correct all my volumes to room temperature (68F/20C) to calculate the boil off rate.

You can also confirm your boil off rate by doing a gravity point balance. Your pre-boil volume * gravity points should be equal to the post-boil volume * gravity points. Gravity points are the (specific gravity -1) * 1000.

I normally get well within 1% difference, which is well within my standard error of measurement (both volumes and gravity).

 

[Gavin C]

But to get a no sparge set up in bs you have to use biab profile.

No you don't.

And you don't have to use a BIAB profile if you use BIAB

Everything is customizable.

I would advise using your own unique profile.

Call it "1 Mybadass profile" and the 1 makes it always top of the list.

I'm guessing you are using a refractometer for gravity readings. Not a spectrometer. They all say they have amazing automatic temperature correction. I have my doubts. I would advising cooling the sample first to at least under 100F. Not long to do with a refractometer.

make sure you are factoring in those large kettle losses in to beer smith. It lumps all trub/ hop absorption and kettle/hose losses as trub losses. One more thing to measure.

The software is solid. The only thing it does not do is make volumetric corrections to 60/68F from preboil temperatures when measuring preboil volume. Something you need to do if you want a more true reading of mash efficiency.

 

[Steampunk]

You are right refractometer. I cool my samples down prior to taking a reading. I use a small pippette then cool it in cool water and test on wrist. If it's cool I test it.

I did try to create my own mash profile after your mention. No change.

The issue I am having is with the volumes but the consistent miss in gravity while hitting the volumes.

 

[Gavin C]

You are right refractometer. I cool my samples down prior to taking a reading. I use a small pippette then cool it in cool water and test on wrist. If it's cool I test it.

I did try to create my own mash profile after your mention. No change.

The issue I am having is with the volumes but the consistent miss in gravity while hitting the volumes.

That means your mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency are lower than you are telling beersmith. Adjustment of those values are needed.

 

[Steampunk]

That's the crux of the problem.

I can adjust the efficiency but that doesn't solve for the over estimate of gravity points after a 60 minute boil.

Last four brew days the mash efficiency was under Estimated. So on a preboil estimate of say 45 I would end up with 55 with an eatimated of og 58. The boil would push me over a few points and I would correct with water.

This time I did not over shoot my preboil. I under shot it by 5 points so I was way under estimated og after the boil because I am only getting about 5 points not 10.

So moving my efficiency down may have solved my problem for this brew day. But may or may not create different issues for the next one as I may get my normal efficiencies.

 

[brewfun]

I did try to create my own mash profile after your mention. No change.

Once you change an equipment profile, you have to re-add it to each recipe you want to use it for. BeerSmith leaves all profiles alone in each recipe so that you have an accurate history of what you've done.

After you've got the wort in the fermenter and all of the measurements added to the recipe, go to the Fermentation tab. Use the number in "Measured Efficiency" as your equipment's Brewhouse Efficiency. The measurement is totaled from all of your input and equipment profile settings.

 

[murphyslaw]

That's the crux of the problem.

I can adjust the efficiency but that doesn't solve for the over estimate of gravity points after a 60 minute boil.

If you hit your pre-boil gravity, but miss your post boil gravity, doesn't that mean your boil off rate is wrong? Isn't that the only variable?

I believe the boil off rate changes with the weather; more evaporation when its cool and dry than hot and humid. I struggle getting this right because I brew about once a month. If I brew in October when its 50-60 degrees, but use the evap rate from my most recent brews I might be using 90 degree days from July and August.