Help, my AG brews are not strong enough

[McCall St. Brewer]

How do I get my AG brews to be stronger?

For the first couple of years that I brewed I made extract batches with steeping grains. I would say I got gradually better at it, and then just after Christmas I started doing AG.

I've been using a 5 gallon round cooler setup for mashing with a false bottom (it's been working flawlessly so far), and have been sparging with another 5 gallong cooler and a Phil's Sparger.

I'm drinkng my third AG batch now and am happy with the taste of each of my brews, as well as the fact that they have all turned out very clear compared with some of my extract batches. Also, I get much better hop utilization now.

What I don't like is that they all seem to be "session" beers. My extract brews tended to give me a bit of a buzz if I drank more than two bottles at a time.

I suppose it may be an efficiency issue. The easy way would be to use more grain, but my cooler really only holds about 12 pounds comfortably (they claim it holds more, but I suspect it would be really tight to put more than 12 lbs. in. What are some of the best ways to improve efficiency?

 

[Soulive]

I'd definitely say get a bigger mash tun and use more grain or improve your efficiency in any way you can. If you can't use more grain, brew smaller batches. If you stayed at the same efficiency, but drop your final batch size to 4 gallons, you'll have higher OG and ultimately ABV...

 

[bradsul]

A finer crush and making sure your pH is good is the best way. There are tons of threads on improving efficiency. Really you're limited in your grain capacity though, you might want to think about a larger MLT.

 

[user 574]

McC, have you calculated your efficiency? You're probably going to max out at about 6-6.5% tops in the 5g cooler with 75% eff.

 

[Funkenjaeger]

Yep, it's as simple as that... The amount of grain you mash and your efficiency determine the amount of fermentables you get, that combined with the batch volume determines your OG, which pretty much sets the upper limit on your ABV. If you want to make stronger beers, you need to either mash more grain (probably needing a bigger mash tun), improve your efficiency, or start brewing batches smaller than 5 gallons.

Improving your efficiency is certainly a good step, but unless it's really terrible now, you probably won't be making a gigantic improvement, so it's probably not going to allow you to brew much bigger beers.

That's one reason that many AG brewers will recommend starting right out with 10-gallon cooler mash tuns instead of 5-gal, because it's practically inevitable that you're eventually going to want to brew a bigger beer. That's pretty much the boat I'm in right now, switching from my 5-gallon MLT to a much bigger cooler so I can do high-gravity 5-gallon batches, as well as 10-gallon batches eventually.

 

[AdIn]

Let's talk the numbers. What was Original and Final gravity of your extract brews? How is it compare to AG? Estimating ABV of a brew based on buzz you got is not very objective.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

I'd definitely say get a bigger mash tun and use more grain or improve your efficiency in any way you can. If you can't use more grain, brew smaller batches. If you stayed at the same efficiency, but drop your final batch size to 4 gallons, you'll have higher OG and ultimately ABV...

I was afraid of that. I knew when I got my coolers that I should have gotten the bigger ones, but my budget was a bit tight at the time.

Smaller batches? Actually, since I've started kegging, I suppose I wouldn't really mind making smaller batches. With bottles, I always wanted to get as close to two cases as possible. Since it is such a pain to sanitize, fill and cap all those bottles, I wanted to make it worth all the fuss. With a keg, though, if it's a little short I don't really even notice.

My LHBS guy seems to know what he's doing when he crushes my grain. I don't think the crush is causing me any efficiency problems.

One question I have thought of also, though: would adding a bit of extract to an AG brew defeat the whole purpose of making an all grain beer? I'm sure it would make the beer stronger, but would a pound or two of extract make it taste too much like an extract brew?

 

[Orfy]

Adding a small % of DME will not hurt an AG beer.
Just do it in moderation. Even a little sugar will not hurt.

 

[niquejim]

One question I have thought of also, though: would adding a bit of extract to an AG brew defeat the whole purpose of making an all grain beer? I'm sure it would make the beer stronger, but would a pound or two of extract make it taste too much like an extract brew?

That's how alot of people with limited space and equipment do it.

 

[Orfy]

It's your beer.
Do it and see if you like the results.

 

[scottthorn]

It's your beer.
Do it and see if you like the results.

Precisely!

IMHO, as long as the majority of your recipe is coming from the mash and not extract you won't notice a difference. I really enjoyed the PM beers I brewed before moving to AG...

 

[BierMuncher]

One question I have thought of also, though: would adding a bit of extract to an AG brew defeat the whole purpose of making an all grain beer? I'm sure it would make the beer stronger, but would a pound or two of extract make it taste too much like an extract brew?

That's how a lot of people with limited space and equipment do it.

When I was doing 5-gallon batches, I'd take a pre boil reading and if I was short by what I thought it should be (preboil) I wouldn't hesitate to add a 1/2 pound of DME +/-.

The addition of invert sugar or even dememera sugar can up your ABV% without adversely affecting your taste. Figure 1 pound of sugar will add .8% to your ABV.

 

[realdh]

Others have already mentioned this, but there's no reason the original poster should not use some added extract to get the OG required for the recipe. Adding another source of sugar (honey, maple syrup, dextrose, table sugar, molasses) can be done, but it will have some effect on the final product.

 

[sause]

My LHBS guy seems to know what he's doing when he crushes my grain. I don't think the crush is causing me any efficiency problems.

Where are you getting it crushed? I know my efficiency was about 70% when getting my grains crushed at either the Market Basket or the Frugal Home Brewer in Waukesha. Once I got my own mill my efficiency went to about 90 everytime. Plus my arm started to hurt after milling 12 pounds by hand.

 

[processhead]

If a five gallon finished batch volume is not important to you, you could just boil your batch till you reach a higher starting gravity.
By not adding any make-up water to the batch toward the end of the boil, you should have the S.G. to make a higher strength brew.
I agree with the others here, though, I would try to fine tune your mashing and laudering process first, and try to get your extraction efficiency up where it should be.

 

[Bearcat Brewmeister]

Are you measuring the gravity of your runoff? You can sparge until you get to 1.010 (some say 1.008) before you start extracting tannins. It is possible you are stopping early and leaving sugar in the mash tun. If sparge down to 1.010 and you end up collecting too much wort, boil it down until you get to the batch size you want.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Regarding crushing grain, I think that over the long run I will need to get my own mill. It'd be nice to be able to buy grain in bulk. For now, though, I have been getting my grain crushed by a variety of sources, including Northern Brewer, The Waukesha Frugal Homebrewer, and also the place in West Allis that used to have the same name. (By the way, the guy who has now opened the new store there seems really nice. His store is small, but very organized).

Meanwhile, I think I'm going to order up some DME soon. Maybe that would be the most pragmatic way to deal with this for now.

I have to confess that I'm much more into the final product than I am in the process. Although I enjoy the brewing process, I think of it more as cooking than as science. And, for me, a very big part of why I do it is enjoyment of the fruits of my labor.

 

[CBBaron]

I have been using a 5gal Rubbermaid cooler for my AG batches. 12# is a good fit in the cooler and 13# is a squeeze. When I was using precrushed grains ordered from thegrape.net I would get about 60-65% efficiency. I always kept some DME on hand to bring my OG up to the desired level. I even made a 9% RIS with this method, you just need to plan for the efficiency.
Now I have a Barley Crusher and I'm getting 80+% efficiency. I can get a good sized 6-6.5% beer with 12# of grain in my MLT. If I want bigger I add DME or even sugar depending on the style. I don't see making my brew day more complicated by double mashing or some other technique to get high OGs when a few $ worth of DME gives great results.
Craig Baker