Help. Lager in 18 days????

[RabbitHole]

So I made 10 gallons Mexican lager that I need to force carb on the 18th day for a party. I need to dry hop four days before I keg with 2lbs.

Right now I’m on day 4 of 52°.

Anybody have any good tips on schedule to this ready in time!!!!

This is my plan now based off of brulosphy fast lager profile. This is skipping all the ramps and just going for it. 1lb on day on of 68° and 1lb on day one of lagering

 

[IslandLizard]

So, if I understand correctly, you start ramping up today, over the next 2 days to 68F? Then hold at 68F for 5 days?
Can you take a gravity reading to see how much on schedule it is? That would be a good indication of this project's feasibility.

You're planning a "cold crash" at 35.6F for 6 days? Why not cold crash at 30-32F? That should go faster. I would probably add gelatin to speed up clarification.

What yeast are you using? How much did you pitch?
2 pounds of dry hop sounds very high... What hop is that?

 

[RabbitHole]

Yeah the more I think about it the more it may be to much hops but it’s on bar with neipa. The hops are sabro.

This is what I’m think now for a schedule. I’m hoping that I’ll be at 50% by tomorrow. But if not I’ll just keep pushing that 68° jump till were half way.

The yeast and all that in for was in my original recipe post but it go moved and I lost all that info.
Mexican lager wlp940
OG 1.056
FG 1.011 is the goal

 

[dmtaylor]

Dry hop it on Tuesday (2 days from now). Wait 3 or 4 days. Crash it, keg it, and pray to the Lord you don't get diacetyl or sulfur, but also don't be surprised when you do. You don't need 2 lbs dry hops, OMG, just 1 lb is more than plenty.

 

[RabbitHole]

Dry hop it on Tuesday (2 days from now). Wait 3 or 4 days. Crash it, keg it, and pray to the Lord you don't get diacetyl or sulfur, but also don't be surprised when you do. You don't need 2 lbs dry hops, OMG, just 1 lb is more than plenty.

Ur my fav person to get answers from. Why crash it so fast when I have so much time. Attached is the recipe. I’m not worried about crazy clarity. But def want it to be good for the party.

 

[IslandLizard]

Why crash it so fast when I have so much time.

Exactly, you probably need most of the little time you have to get it to attenuate fully.

I’m not worried about crazy clarity. But def want it to be good for the party.

A well attenuated hazy Lager is much better than an sweet/under-attenuated one that's clear(er).
When fermenting at 68F diacetyl won't be a concern.

Definitely consider using gelatin from the get-go when cold crashing at 30-32F.

From your recipe sheet, I think you underpitched by quite a bit, though... I'm looking at 780 billion cells needed for a 10 gallon 1.056 OG Lager.

 

[Dland]

Have read the whole thread though, someone has to say it"

A "lager" with only 18 days from brew to serve is not a lager. Lager yeast and recipe do not replace the "lager" part, which translates to "store" or or set for a while cold to age & mellow.

Does not mean it will not be enjoyable beer, but I'd be willing to bet same brew would be much better if not rushed.

 

[dmtaylor]

I agree with pretty much everything everybody has said. Keep it warm-ish until you’re sure it’s done fermenting, this will give a chance for the sulfur and/or diacetyl (if any) to dissipate as well.

 

[RabbitHole]

Exactly, you probably need most of the little time you have to get it to attenuate fully.


A well attenuated hazy Lager is much better than an sweet/under-attenuated one that's clear(er).
When fermenting at 68F diacetyl won't be a concern.

Definitely consider using gelatin from the get-go when cold crashing at 30-32F.

From your recipe sheet, I think you underpitched by quite a bit, though... I'm looking at 780 billion cells needed for a 10 gallon 1.056 OG Lager.

Oh yeah it’s probably wayyyyyy worse than that. I built that starter on 1year old yeast. And only one packet. I had no choice cause I couldn’t order more in time. I just went for it. Spun it for three days and got a pretty good slurry. Them bastards are stressed to the max. But they are digging through it. I’m down to 1.038. If I can get it down to 1.33 I’ll bring her up to 68° I could
Def do a gelatin. Never done it before but love new things.

 

[RabbitHole]

Have read the whole thread though, someone has to say it"

A "lager" with only 18 days from brew to serve is not a lager. Lager yeast and recipe do not replace the "lager" part, which translates to "store" or or set for a while cold to age & mellow.

Does not mean it will not be enjoyable beer, but I'd be willing to bet same brew would be much better if not rushed.

Maybe I’ll pull 5 gallons for the party and leave the other 5 for longer lagering temps. Do u think it will still come out decent going the schedule I have. And just leave 5 till say Christmas.
I’ll just do a big old trub dump to get all the hops out.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you could ferment under pressure, you can crank the temp up to 68F (possibly even higher) without introducing much of the high-temp fermentation side-effects, such as higher (fusel) alcohols and other flavor/aroma byproducts associated with high ferm temps, resulting in a much cleaner "Lager."

Lager yeast and recipe do not replace the "lager" part, which translates to "store" or or set for a while cold to age & mellow.

Sure, there's some truth to that. Although he's using a bottom fermenting yeast, he's using it at higher (ale territory) temps and there will be a lack of (longer term) Lagering.

He could call it a Pseudo Lager, instead.

Sabro hop amounts, for your reference:
A few months ago I brewed 5 gallons of an "American Wheat:"
54% wheat (46% flaked, 8% wheat malt)
46% Pilsner malt

Cereal mash, using half the barley malt with a 20' boil at the end.
Followed by a regular mash with the remainder of the barley.

Yeast: London III (WY 1318)
OG 1.070
FG 1.013
7.5% ABV
34.4 IBU

Used 15 g of Sabro hops (14.5 %AA) as FWH for a 60' boil, yielding 26.8 IBU.
Then 84 g (3 oz) of the same Sabro hops in the whirlpool at 140F, for 15', yielding 7.6 IBU. IBU may be somewhat higher, I get great efficiency in the whirlpool. Then chilled quickly to ferm temps (plate chiller). All hops stayed in the kettle while chilling.

After 5 days of fermentation (~70F) reached terminal gravity, soft crashed, then added 84 g (3 oz) of the same Sabro for a 3-day dry hop. Then kegged the batch. A nice, very drinkable beer!

The hops are definitely there, with a very pleasant flavor/aroma. Some of my brew friends said the coconut aroma/flavor was very upfront/assertive. Others found the beer very fruity. I am not that sensitive to coconut, apparently, so I stick to a nice fruity-ness.

 

[RabbitHole]

If you could ferment under pressure, you can crank the temp up to 68F (possibly even higher) without introducing much of the high-temp fermentation side-effects, such as higher (fusel) alcohols and other flavor/aroma byproducts associated with high ferm temps, resulting in a much cleaner "Lager."


Sure, there's some truth to that. Although he's using a bottom fermenting yeast, he's using it at higher (ale territory) temps and there will be a lack of (longer term) Lagering.

He could call it a Pseudo Lager, instead.

Sabro hop amounts, for your reference:
A few months ago I brewed 5 gallons of an "American Wheat:"
54% wheat (46% flaked, 8% wheat malt)
46% Pilsner malt

Cereal mash, using half the barley malt with a 20' boil at the end.
Followed by a regular mash with the remainder of the barley.

Yeast: London III (WY 1318)
OG 1.070
FG 1.013
7.5% ABV
34.4 IBU

Used 15 g of Sabro hops (14.5 %AA) as FWH for a 60' boil, yielding 26.8 IBU.
Then 84 g (3 oz) of the same Sabro hops in the whirlpool at 140F, for 15', yielding 7.6 IBU. IBU may be somewhat higher, I get great efficiency in the whirlpool. Then chilled quickly to ferm temps (plate chiller). All hops stayed in the kettle while chilling.

After 5 days of fermentation (~70F) reached terminal gravity, soft crashed, then added 84 g (3 oz) of the same Sabro for a 3-day dry hop. Then kegged the batch. A nice, very drinkable beer!

The hops are definitely there, with a very pleasant flavor/aroma. Some of my brew friends said the coconut aroma/flavor was very upfront/assertive. Others found the beer very fruity. I am not that sensitive to coconut, apparently, so I stick to a nice fruity-ness.

So I have the stuff to build a spunding valve. But it’s all school and just dumps to atmosphere and not fancy like them spike ones. Maybe I can rig a hose and shove it on a bucket.

 

[IslandLizard]

So I have the stuff to build a spunding valve. But it’s all school and just dumps to atmosphere and not fancy like them spike ones. Maybe I can rig a hose and shove it on a bucket.

Doesn't have to be fancy, as long as it's safe and working, and your fermenter can handle the pressure. 10-12 psi should be sufficient, perhaps even 15 psi.
You're also carbonating the beer that way, saving time later on in the serving keg. You'll need to do a pressurized transfer to the serving kegs or it will be all foam. That's where the spunding valve comes in handy again.

 

[RabbitHole]

Doesn't have to be fancy, as long as it's safe and working, and your fermenter can handle the pressure. 10-12 psi should be sufficient, perhaps even 15 psi.
You're also carbonating the beer that way, saving time later on in the serving keg. You'll need to do a pressurized transfer to the serving kegs or it will be all foam. That's where the spunding valve comes in handy again.

She will handle it. I supposed now with all the fancy research out there I should go back to pressurized fermentation. I leave for months at a time and my wife always forgets to fill my buckets up.

 

[Spivey24]

It’s all going to come down to those yeasties. They sound like they are on an ok pace for the pitch you did, but if they decide to slow down, it will be a problem. The less attenuation, the greater the time keg conditioning needed in my opinion. Hopefully you mashed well and you can get it down to the 1.010 mark in a reasonable time.

And I agree with others that 2 lbs sabro would make a fruit bomb.

 

[RabbitHole]

It’s all going to come down to those yeasties. They sound like they are on an ok pace for the pitch you did, but if they decide to slow down, it will be a problem. The less attenuation, the greater the time keg conditioning needed in my opinion. Hopefully you mashed well and you can get it down to the 1.010 mark in a reasonable time.

And I agree with others that 2 lbs sabro would make a fruit bomb.

Haha. Yeah def going to cut it to 8oz on two occasions. I did the mash at 146° then stepped to 158° 30min at each with the rise time of 15min if my memory serves me. Tasted pretty sweet. I’m down to 1.034 now. Going to pump her up to 68 degrees tonight. No ramp… just give her the juice!!!

 

[RabbitHole]

If you could ferment under pressure, you can crank the temp up to 68F (possibly even higher) without introducing much of the high-temp fermentation side-effects, such as higher (fusel) alcohols and other flavor/aroma byproducts associated with high ferm temps, resulting in a much cleaner "Lager."


Sure, there's some truth to that. Although he's using a bottom fermenting yeast, he's using it at higher (ale territory) temps and there will be a lack of (longer term) Lagering.

He could call it a Pseudo Lager, instead.

Sabro hop amounts, for your reference:
A few months ago I brewed 5 gallons of an "American Wheat:"
54% wheat (46% flaked, 8% wheat malt)
46% Pilsner malt

Cereal mash, using half the barley malt with a 20' boil at the end.
Followed by a regular mash with the remainder of the barley.

Yeast: London III (WY 1318)
OG 1.070
FG 1.013
7.5% ABV
34.4 IBU

Used 15 g of Sabro hops (14.5 %AA) as FWH for a 60' boil, yielding 26.8 IBU.
Then 84 g (3 oz) of the same Sabro hops in the whirlpool at 140F, for 15', yielding 7.6 IBU. IBU may be somewhat higher, I get great efficiency in the whirlpool. Then chilled quickly to ferm temps (plate chiller). All hops stayed in the kettle while chilling.

After 5 days of fermentation (~70F) reached terminal gravity, soft crashed, then added 84 g (3 oz) of the same Sabro for a 3-day dry hop. Then kegged the batch. A nice, very drinkable beer!

The hops are definitely there, with a very pleasant flavor/aroma. Some of my brew friends said the coconut aroma/flavor was very upfront/assertive. Others found the beer very fruity. I am not that sensitive to coconut, apparently, so I stick to a nice fruity-nes

She dropped 11 points in 20hours. I only have 11 to go. I put 12 psi on it while it sits at 68°. I should be ok to leave it at that till the end on the 9th right?

 

[IslandLizard]

She dropped 11 points in 20hours. I only have 11 to go. I put 12 psi on it while it sits at 68°. I should be ok to leave it at that till the end on the 9th right?

Hooray, that's fantastic news!

Yes, you can leave the pressure on until you're ready to keg it.
Just release the pressure for a few minutes when you're adding the gelatin solution.* Then re-pressurize.

* You can "inject" the gelatin solution with a syringe through a port or gas post on top of the fermenter, if there is one. Then re-pressurize to keep the beer carbonating, while it's clearing.

 

[RabbitHole]

Hooray, that's fantastic news!

Yes, you can leave the pressure on until you're ready to keg it.
Just release the pressure for a few minutes when you're adding the gelatin solution.* Then re-pressurize.

* You can "inject" the gelatin solution with a syringe through a port or gas post on top of the fermenter, if there is one. Then re-pressurize to keep the beer carbonating, while it's clearing.

Hooray, that's fantastic news!

Yes, you can leave the pressure on until you're ready to keg it.
Just release the pressure for a few minutes when you're adding the gelatin solution.* Then re-pressurize.

* You can "inject" the gelatin solution with a syringe through a port or gas post on top of the fermenter, if there is one. Then re-pressurize to keep the beer carbonating, while it's clearing.

That pressure damn near brought the fermentation to a screeching Hault.

 

[RabbitHole]

@IslandLizard nvm. She’s dropping. Maybe have gotten stuck or something. Down to 1.014!!

 

[RabbitHole]

So fermentation has been done for 3dull days. Finished around 1.008 carbonated. Waiting for it to degas before I’m comfortable on a solid number.

I just dry hopped for 8oz of sabro. Should I cold crash now. Or wait till Dec 3rd which will give me 6 days of lagering. It smells like a lager already.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just dry hopped for 8oz of sabro. Should I cold crash now.

I would start cold crashing now, as fast as you can (but don't freeze it ). After 2 or 3 days, add your (dissolved) gelatin to help clarifying.
You can probably up the pressure a little as cold shrinks the gas volume, to prevent your beer from losing carbonation.

Waiting for it to degas before I’m comfortable on a solid number.

That's the sample you're degassing, right? Not your batch of beer...

Not that is matters much, are those dry hops added loose or contained in a hop bag?

 

[RabbitHole]

I would start cold crashing now, as fast as you can (but don't freeze it ). After 2 or 3 days, add your (dissolved) gelatin to help clarifying.
You can probably up the pressure a little as cold shrinks the gas volume, to prevent your beer from losing carbonation.


That's the sample you're degassing, right? Not your batch of beer...

Not that is matters much, are those dry hops added loose or contained in a hop bag?

Just degassing the sample. I dumped them lose. I forgot to buy bags. lol.

I did 12gallon batch so I plenty to trub dump.

 

[RabbitHole]

After 2 or 3 days, add your (dissolved) gelatin to help clarifying.

I read 1tsp to 3/4 cup water. Heat to 160° and dump in. Shouldn’t I let it cool first. Should I boile it before I add the gelatin and let it cool to 160° to ensure it’s clean.

Can I use stuff from the grocery store haha

Sorry. First time. No idea. Hahaha

 

[Spivey24]

After cold crashing, 1 tsp or 1 packet Knox unflavored gelatin for 10 gallon batch. From grocery store is fine. Proof in 3/4 cup cold water on the counter for 3-5 minutes, then stir and microwave at 50% until it reaches 160 degrees, then immediately use on beer. Leave for 1 day then package.

 

[RabbitHole]

After cold crashing, 1 tsp or 1 packet for 10 gallon batch. Proof in 3/4 cup cold water on the counter for 3-5 minutes, then stir and microwave at 50% until it reaches 160 degrees, then immediately use on beer. Leave for 1 day then package.

One packet. From like the food store??
Haha.

 

[Spivey24]

One packet. From like the food store??
Haha.

Yep. I’ve never bothered boiling the water first but wouldn’t hurt. Not sure if you can add the gelatin to the 160 water directly. Never tried.

 

[hottpeper13]

I bloom it in cold water until it sinks(pyrex 2 cup measure) then stir with thermometer ,microwave in 11 sec intervals stirring between, noting temperature. I only go to 140* and pour it gently into the keg at racking then into 33* on CO2 lagerator. It gose on tap when there's room.

 

[RabbitHole]

Will this stuff be fine

 

[Spivey24]

Will this stuff be fine

View attachment 835796

Yep.

 

[RabbitHole]

Do u guys think there is anything wrong with leaving it hazy.

 

[day_trippr]

Well it sure ain't no lager but call it a hazy ipl...or serve it in Solo cups.
In this era as long as it tastes good it'll be ok....

Cheers!

 

[RabbitHole]

Well it sure ain't no lager but call it a hazy ipl...or serve it in Solo cups.
In this era as long as it tastes good it'll be ok....

Cheers!

I mean all the big names are doing hazy lagers now. It’s pretty clear into the light considering it was dry hopped.

 

[hottpeper13]

Just tell them it's a Kellerbier,which is a hazy young lager.

 

[Beermeister32]

This whole thing seems to me a bit rushed. If I were doing it, I’d go down and pick up a second keg to also serve in case hoppy, cloudy green lager isn’t the partier’s preference. Serve them both.

Pacifico is a great “regular” Mexican lager if you can find a keg. Or just use a standard like Heineken. Parties are for pleasing other people. Showcasing your brewing skill is great, but not everyone rolls that way. Also buy some seltzers and some wine, they’re not all beer drinkers…

 

[RabbitHole]

This whole thing seems to me a bit rushed. If I were doing it, I’d go down and pick up a second keg to also serve in case hoppy, cloudy green lager isn’t the partier’s preference. Serve them both.

Pacifico is a great “regular” Mexican lager if you can find a keg. Or just use a standard like Heineken. Parties are for pleasing other people. Showcasing your brewing skill is great, but not everyone rolls that way. Also buy some seltzers and some wine, they’re not all beer drinkers…

It’s not the only beer. I got three on tap plus seltzer. And yeah it’s rushed. But it’s delicious. I drank three glass right off the sample tube last night.

 

[IslandLizard]

And yeah it’s rushed. But it’s delicious.

Glad to hear, you pulled this off on a tight timeline. Now you know, next time, start a week later.

 

[RabbitHole]

Glad to hear, you pulled this off on a tight timeline. Now you know, next time, start a week later.

I appreciate all the tips. I only put 8oz of hops total. It’s to good to change. Not only that! keezer failed five days before the party. So that’s been a ******** for sure!!!! And ate of tons of time. All is well tho. Should be a good time!!!!